Boston Bruins Defense: Do They Have the Right Pieces? | Ep. 156

0:00 Speaker 1: Can you start a podcast with me?

0:02 Speaker 2: Please?

0:03 Speaker 1: I need something to do. I'll Jack sending out a trouble bocking to say thanks.

0:19 Speaker 3: To day.

0:20 Speaker 1: Here's a chance, pop right down the goalie scars. Oh my one a move by the rookie too on one faster not moving in shat it, Jet on his own Oil dances in podcast.

0:32 Speaker 2: At home right away corner, paster Chester. What is that for?

0:41 Speaker 3: Most?

0:51 Speaker 2: Welcome in, everyone to another episode of Bruins Tape to tape. I am going to be your host today. I am Maria from Watertown. I am today by my steadfast co host Caroline with a kay. Welcome in, Caroline, how are you today?

1:08 Speaker 1: I'm good. It's a little bit dreary where I am today, but it's also kind of a little bit cooler. It's kind of hinting at maybe hockey seasons not too far away.

1:19 Speaker 2: Today, we're going to kick off what I'm going to refer to as maybe kind of a two part series where we are going to do a little bit of a deep dive into our defensive depth. In part one and part two, we will go into the depth of our forward groupings and the general questions folks, I think that we're going to try to address in each of these episodes is how do we feel about what we are going to have available to us? Do we feel that the needs of this team are going to be met with the players currently on the roster and there are some spots that are likely going to be fought over?

2:05 Speaker 2: And overall, do we feel that we are potentially in a better position going into this season than we were last season? And again, the other question that I think we should discuss too, because it's always good fodder, is well, we might think will be odd manned out, either by way of being sent down to Providence, put on waivers, or still a potential for a trade. And you you're going to give everyone a little bit, quite a bit actually, because you've done a good amount of work on this, all kidding aside, a little bit of an education on how the Bruins' defensive depth needs to operate or should operate based on the system that the Bruins play.

2:56 Speaker 2: We do know for fact that the Bruins relied quite heavily on goaltending last season, quite heavily. Some may say, well, Jeremy Swayman's getting paid this kind of money and you should be reliable and he absolutely was. You shouldn't make an assumption game after gain that your goaltenders are going to quote unquote stand on their heads. There has to be a system of checks and balances. And so I'm going to start off with a little bit of statistical information that I've pulled up here, which some of it I've found surprising pleasantly and some of it surprising a little scary.

3:37 Speaker 2: The Bruins finished fourteenth overall and NHL goals allowed per game last season three point oh one. It's not it's not through the roof great to me. Anything under two, you're like, sign me up, right, this is the scary statistic. They ranked thirtieth in expected goals against and twenty seven in scoring chances against, which was a little bit troubling to me. You weren't as buttoned up defensively as we were hearing that they wanted to be.

4:12 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's effectively indicating that you allowed the opposing team to just walk right in to your defensive zone high danger chances.

4:23 Speaker 2: They were tied for thirtieth, which means you think that's good, but it's not good. No, it's not good, Which makes what Jeremy Swayman and Jonas did last season pretty damn good, Pretty damn good based on these statistics.

4:41 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'd be curious to see how those numbers fluctuated across the entire season, because I definitely think that as the season progressed, they got better with the system that Marco Sturham has been looking to implement, which is really shutting things down at the blue line and then also getting the puck out as quickly as possible from the defensive zone. And that may sound like, oh, duh, that's what defensemen do, but there are a lot of different ways that you can accomplish that, and his particular style was to try and get that to happen well before they got in too far.

5:23 Speaker 1: And according to your stat by being tied for thirtieth in the NHL with high danger chances against, they got in pretty far because the high.

5:30 Speaker 2: Danger chance the immediate area around the crease. Right, that's not good. How many times did we see the back end of the house. They got roasted and toasted, especially against teams who had more skilled and speedier forwards than we did. Yeah, yeah, they got beat. Here's the other stat that I found, to me was a little bit pleasantly surprised, but you might be a little bit skewed. But the Bruins finished fourteenth in toll gouals scored by defenceman with thirty six, which I don't think that's hugely high.

6:06 Speaker 2: But Charlie McAboy had a monster season. He had a monster season offensively, he had eleven goals and fifty assists, and then there was a drop off after that. But that too had been an area of concern at least to start the season that we needed more offensive output from our defenseman, which is a little bit of a catch twenty two because if your touting wanting to play this very sound defensive structure, I would think that the men have to be choosing their spots a little bit more wisely in terms of their offensive output or ensuring that your pairings are such that you've got someone who, okay, when the opportunity presents itself, can set the offense going or create some offense, and you've got the reliable kind of going to be back here ready to do what I need to do defensively, as well as the forwards too.

7:10 Speaker 2: So with that, I'm going to let you go into your definitions of the jobs of particular pairings.

7:18 Speaker 1: One of the things that we've talked about forever is every successful team has very clearly defined roles within whatever their system and structure actually is, and then also ensuring that you have other folks who could also step in where needed. You see that more so in the forwards end of the ice, there's a lot more flexibility in how you can compose that part of your team. When it comes down to defense, you need to make sure still that you have the right pairings put together. So to your point, as just an example, someone like Charlie McAvoy, or let's say even a Hampis Linholm, where they are maybe a two way defenceman or or a defenseman who has offensive capabilities.

8:02 Speaker 1: The way that they're able to then do that is if they have a good partner that they don't have to babysit, that they can trust to kind of man the fort while they go in. I don't want to assume that anyone who's listening knows nearly as much about hockey and positioning as maybe we do, so I'll just do a super quick rundown on what the basic job is. I'm talking about the general traditional structure of defensive zone responsibilities. Keeping in mind how a coach puts these players together can be a little bit different based on his systems.

8:38 Speaker 1: But you've got your defensive zone split in half. One side of the ice is for one d man and the one is for the other. The strong side is a dynamic phrase that basically means whatever side of the ice the puck is in. So if the puck is on one side, that's the strong side and that defenseman is responsible there flips over and that becomes the weak side. Now that's important because where the puck even is on the ice, if it's on the strong side or the weak side, the primary responsibility of that defenceman.

9:11 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what number defenseman he is, what paring he's on, his job is going to change even based on where on the ice the puck actually is. When the strong side D is dealing with that battle in the corner, the weak side D in this case, his or her responsibility is to be netcrunt. You may hear a goalie shout back door covering the back door that openside because your goaltender is going to be facing the puck, so you want to make sure that your weak side defenceman is covering that net front.

9:46 Speaker 1: Now you mentioned as well that Boston struggled with high danger chances. To me, that then says that perhaps Boston was not as strong on the weak side. D that net front ris your primary responsibilities of the three pairings. It's not that dissimilar from the four lines of forwards upfront, but your primary pairings. Your first pairing, that's going to be obviously your top guys. Their responsibility is to control the game. You're looking at offense, defense leadership. These are going to be your heavy minute players.

10:22 Speaker 1: Some teams have much more even spread of minutes across the three pairings. Sometimes it's going to be a lot more for your top pairing based on who you're matched up against. The second pairing, their primary job is keeping the game under control. They are going to be very well balanced and complimentary in how they play, and they're going to be very good two way players. And then your third pairing, that's your shutdown pairing. These are your physical guys, really heavy defensive zone work, and you're going to see a lot of them also on the penalty kill.

10:59 Speaker 1: Regardless, the biggest, most important aspect is ensuring that you have players with complimentary skills. You don't want to have two super offensive defencemen because if the puck scorts out past them, they're going to be way too far down towards the offensive zone and you don't have anybody to go back. Meanwhile, you don't necessarily want to always have to stay at home defencemen because you do want to get all five of your skaters involved in the play. So you need to find the right kind of complementary pairs.

11:35 Speaker 1: As we'll talk in a little bit, Boston has a lot of defencemen to choose from for that composition.

11:44 Speaker 2: I agree with you on all of your points. However, you know, my view has always been that your shutdown guys should also be your first pairing guys. Now maybe I think they should. Honestly, they should all be right, should all, but in certain circumstances, when you're protecting a lead, or you know there are strategies where you know you've got to face off in your own end late in the game and whatever, and the opposing team has got their top guys out there, I would argue the point that I want to see our top guys out there.

12:23 Speaker 1: Defending that I can clarify maybe a little bit in the sense that because that is absolutely the role that you would give to your top guys heavy minutes, that offensive and defensive skill set in the leadership, I think I would describe then what I mean by shutdown in the sense that they're not there. The third pairing is going to be more defensively heavy, and their goal is to then just stop things at the blue line. More So, that's kind of what I'm talking about to shut down. You could use that phrase in a multitude of different ways, but a different ways.

12:55 Speaker 1: This is the hypothetical ideal what you would love to say see in your pairs that I find to be the most complimentary With that top pair, they're going to be assisting with driving the offense and really supporting the forwards. So again getting all five guys involved in offensive activities, but also having at least one of those two able to cover for an aggressive player. So if Charlie is able to be a little bit more aggressive, go in a little bit further into the offensive zone, does he have an adequate partner to be reliable enough to cover that whole zone.

13:41 Speaker 1: Basically, while Charlie is a little bit further up, they anchored the special teams especially power play. So we talk a lot about in the power play you may hear is the quarterback of the power play unit because it typically is only going to be the one defenseman out there, and he's manning the entire blue line, and he has to be the best because then he's going to be by himself defensively, and so he has to be able to not only play a strong offensive game from the blue line and pass to different players out of the eyes, but if the team loses the puck, he has got to be able to haul ask and get back and stop any kind of shorthanded play.

14:22 Speaker 1: So you're looking at also extremely high Hockey IQ defenceman here, because they have to understand exactly where everyone is and what they're doing at all times. This is going to be the most difficult position of all of the defensemen. When it comes to the second pair, again, they're going to be doing a lot more of the meaningful five on five minutes. They're very dependable, and they're going to continue to maintain that defensive structure and serve as a way to take off some of the pressure from that top pair.

14:53 Speaker 1: So these are still very excellent. This is your number three and number four defencemen, and they're going to be a little bit but more broadly skilled. While you may have your top pair and your bottom pair being more specialized in some areas, this is going to be your more renaissance man, where you could have a little bit more flexibility, but you really still have to be very physical and have a lot of excellent skating. You're going to see some of the pairings from players on these pairings participate in the second power play unit and or penalty killed, depending on their individual skill sets.

15:30 Speaker 1: A purely defensive player isn't automatically the ideal partner for an offensive defenceman. You need to make sure that pairing an offensive d man with someone who's too slow or too defensive can really muddle up any of the work there. And then that third pair almost you could imagine a little bit more of your chaos line. You have a lot more physicality. Sometimes these are the guys that for five on five play, they're going to be up against some of the top lines because their goal is to go out there and lay out a massive hit.

16:04 Speaker 1: That's how they're going to stop the other team's top players. And you'll see a lot of these guys also on the penalty kill. This is the most specialized pairing because a lot of them are going to be more so stay at home defenceman PK specialists, some two way play, but their job is to really just provide dependable, low risk minutes. They've got one job and it is this is our part of the ice. This is where we have to be and we're going to be as physical as we possibly can to stop the other team. And just for our.

16:37 Speaker 2: Listeners clarification, pretty much every member of the Boston Bruins roster is expected to participate in defensive responsibilities. Whether you're a center, forward, wing, defenceman, goal, yeah, they all have a role in this. We're focusing on right now, just to back and of the house because we've seemingly we've got goaltending. We know what we're going to get from Jeremy Swayman. I think what we saw last season is not a fluke. I think that is the Jeremy Swayman that we had been expecting and wanting to see, and he's shown us in playoffs that he can bring it and I don't think there are going to be any hiccups there.

17:25 Speaker 2: We'll see how the utilization of Mike dpietro is and how the defensive corps will adjust to playing in front of Michael d pietro because most of these guys have played in front of Swayman and they understand what Swayman expects this season.

17:44 Speaker 1: Yes, so we're dealing with at this point, I'll be a little generous four teen players, but too many for the roster. Now, okay, so here's my first question. We'll go down through the list of names.

18:00 Speaker 2: Ye, and you've got an ideal role identified for each of these players, And then I'm going to ask you, yes, if you think that this component of the team has improved to any degree?

18:15 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, And there are a handful of names on this list that are handful. You only have you can only ever have six, six on a game day roster. And I would argue that you've got one to four of them pretty much guaranteed. Let's say three of them. I'll take it back, three of them are guaranteed daily jobs daily. I think we can agree on those three right off the hop.

18:47 Speaker 2: Charlie McAvoy, Hampus, Linnholm, Nikita Zadorov, everyone else. There are some that are likely to be in more than not and then there are some that we have no idea what we're gonna get because they are new. I'm gonna address Mason Lauri first because he I'm going to piggyback on. Yes, my little note to Mene about Mason Lawai. He has shown the promise and the potential to be the offensive activation D with the expectation that he fills that role on the top pairing.

19:25 Speaker 1: Instead, he has become more of an offensively inclined, high risk, puck moving D. And that's the piece, is the high risk part. What did I say about that first pair? They have to be your highest Hockey IQ pairing. This kid does not have that, at least not yet. And in spite of his shortcomings, he is still an exceptionally fluid skater. He is very comfortable playing, carrying the puck, creating offense, willing to be activated and dangerous. He just has to be significantly better at his positioning, his checking and his puck decisions.

20:05 Speaker 1: But that is who he is, Okay, that is the flavor of defenceman he is. You will never make this guy a stay at home defenceman. That's just not what kind of player he is. What he should be is this is all sins aside. Based on how he plays the game, he should be a top four offensive specialist and on the power play that he is not executing on that right now. And if he can improve those things that I mentioned, the positioning, checking, decision making, if he can get a little smarter out on the ice, maybe he's salvageable in that role.

20:46 Speaker 1: But right now, from what we've seen, he makes me nervous, and I don't like that.

20:51 Speaker 2: No, there's always some concern, not so much when he's carrying the puck, but I do agree with you. He seems to have a better level of decision making when he is focused on his offensive skills. But there's still concern about plays that he makes in our own end. And I don't think he is as strong on the puck in our corners as he needs to be in the type of system that the Bruins are playing. And I'm not quite sure if the coaching staff I e. Marco trusts him in a lot of defensive situations.

21:34 Speaker 1: Now.

21:34 Speaker 2: Offensively, the kid has got wheels and he's got good hands, and he can shoot the puck. And after Charlie mclboy, he was tied defensively as a defenseman with Hampuslindholme for the second highest point totals or defenseman and believe it or not, and you know how much I love the staff. He ended up finishing like a plus seventeen for the season, which is tremendous, which shocked to me, and he had been relegated to the ninth floor for a small number of games for period of time to kind of take a seat back and watch, get your head on straight.

22:11 Speaker 2: This is what we're expecting from you. And at that time, honestly, there could have been a lot of guys that were sent up to the ninth floor because everyone was struggling with the new system.

22:24 Speaker 1: Okay, everyone seemed to be having a hard time. Yeah, yeah, but what.

22:28 Speaker 2: We currently have roster, someone or someone's can't be part of this upcoming roster.

22:36 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, with thirteen defense to choose from, let's start first with the three that we know we're going to have full time job. Yeah, Charlie McAvoy, he's your elite, two way, puck moving defenseman. Regardless of how you feel about him on a day to day basis or on as a whole, he is arguably Boston's best overall defenceman. He is a top pair driver no matter where he is, He's an excellent for matchup defense, kind of like you had mentioned. You want him out there when his game is on, when he wants his game to be on.

23:09 Speaker 2: He is a top defender in the league, although something that came out on NHL dot Com and across the league, his ranking was only at number eleven. But again, this has been a knock on Charlie that the expectation is that he would be a top tier defenseman in the league. Now, maybe last season was a little bit of a catalyst to that, and we'll see more of that coming into this season, in which case I say, all right, I might eat my words. But he has yet to show me and a lot of other fans that he is a top five, top ten defenseman in the NHL.

23:48 Speaker 2: Yet not saying he can't get there. But on this Ruins team, he's probably your number one guy.

23:54 Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's been known to be a huge minute eater. I've seen him many a game where, prior to Marco Sturm, he's played twenty six, twenty seven to twenty eight minutes in a game, which is absolutely absurd in an obscene amount of time.

24:12 Speaker 2: These three guys that you have here are just they eight minutes for there're just monsters.

24:20 Speaker 1: Yes, so Hampus, he's perfect for the second pair, primarily not because he is lesser than defenceman, but because of his particular style of play. He is an effective two way puck mover. He can play offensively, he can play defensively. Definitely top four pair. See I'm Hampus. I'm concerned about is I've seen in decline in his play and in his skating ability. Though whatever the injuries are, that and they've been significant injuries. He is not He is not the same player that he was when he first came to us.

24:56 Speaker 1: But the funny thing is, I think that first year that he was with Boston was his outlier year because if you look at how he played his points, his game prior, it's much like what we're seeing now. I think we have a skewed view of what he can and should do because he came in and had that We came at the end of one season, which I wouldn't really consider much about. But then he had that first full season and that was the perfect season, and everybody was just freakishly good.

25:26 Speaker 2: But that's I think what we see him be now is who he is. Then I would I would bump him down. I would put Tommy crazy. He's too good. I think he's just I think he's gonna have to be.

25:38 Speaker 1: Good for the first AID games. He's going to have to be right.

25:41 Speaker 2: He's probably going to be taking over for Turley. He's gonna have to be the number one guy, right. I would still give that opportunity to Zadora. Believe it or not, sure, but I think because of the type of defenseman that Hampus is, if you consider the fact that the second pairing is where you're going to have more of your two way defensive players, Of all of the two way players available to you, he is the best one. Because I'll skip ahead a little bit, your other two way puck moving transition defenseman are Henry Joki, Haru, Jonathan Aspero, Jordan Harris, maybe Loki Johansson if he makes it up, those are kind of your options, and he is your most veteran he is.

26:28 Speaker 2: I think he has very good hockey iq and very good hockey sense. Sometimes he makes mistakes in his ability to execute isn't always there. Maybe that has to do with some of the challenges that he's been going through. Physically, Nikita Zadorov, that's the third guy.

26:45 Speaker 1: This man is the definition of the physical, shutdown, disruptive D. He could be put anywhere and serve at any time where you need that extra muscle. He is skilled enough and talented enough, and I think he's got and better IQ wise, be that roving muscle when and where you need him to be. He's one hundred percent a top four just in terms of skill, top four defenceman. But if you're really looking for a heavy pair on your third pairing, my god, he's great there and he is a penalty kill guy. Other returners Henry Oki horre you he's that mobile, two way, puck moving defenceman.

27:28 Speaker 1: However, he's a more of a third pair utility D. He'll play top four more so, I think in a fill in role. Jonathan Asboro. Again, he is that physical, two ways stabilizing defenceman. We've talked about him this summer. He is a very complimentary top four defensive matchup partner. My only question around him is he good enough skill wise speed? Does he have that extra talent to be able to play consistently on the top two pairs.

28:04 Speaker 2: If he grows up, mustache back, MAYBEBD TBD, TVD.

28:09 Speaker 1: TBD at him and then everybody else is really new. I mean Jordan Harris, we saw him play for what just a couple of games because of his unfortunate breaking of his ankle and then coming back right at the end. You know, he's his particular style. He's very mobile, he's puck moving, a puck moving defenceman.

28:26 Speaker 2: He brings some physicality to his game. He does I think the growings need.

28:31 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's one that could be a bubble player just because of how new he is, and nobody really knows what kind of player he is at the NHL level, but he does have that potential to He's also very young, and you know he could have that potential to get up into the second pair and develop as a really good two way defenseman. You know, we have new folks. Connor Clifton. I mean, granted, he's played in Boston before and we had an episode about him. He's a classic pair three, high energy, little bit of chaos, shutting down by with his physicality, high pressure defenceman, penalty kill all the way.

29:11 Speaker 1: We have now Will Borgan. He is a stay at home physical d top four certainly complimentary, but great on the penalty kill. I find that the stay at home defenceman is kind of rare these days, and it'll be interesting to see how he gets used in Marco Sturm's system. In terms of young guys who might try to actually crack the roster, we've got Frederick Brune. A lot of people have their eyes on this kid.

29:42 Speaker 2: Including management. Don Sweeney has given the impression that he's going to be given a real look at during training camp, and the current coach of the Providence Bruins, Trent Whitfield, spoke glowingly of him, basically saying, listen, you know he's done everything we've asked him to do. He's earn't his opportunity right.

30:04 Speaker 1: I wonder if he is as strong of an offensive, puck moving defenceman, depending on how good he is at the core skills of being a defenseman. Could he be the Mason Lauri replacement. Could he execute on the vision that they had for the type of player that Mason Lorii is that archetype of a player. Could he be the less risky version of what he is supposed to be providing.

30:30 Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know either, but there are clearly too many bubble guys here right, Yes, these are new guys who they're going to be trying to get a spot on the roster, but also be your maybe emergency sixth seventh d Loki Hansen. We talked about him in the dev camp conversation. He's really strong. He's also a mobile, two way transitional player. We know that's what Marco Stermali to see in terms of the playout on the ice.

31:02 Speaker 1: He's going to get a good look. But I think what's hard to say with these guys because they're not just new to the team. Some of these guys are new to the NHL. My question to you, okay, first few games aside, when Charlie is not going to be there, knowing what we have, what we want to see from our top pair, I've got a couple of options to throw out to you in terms of who would be his best, most consistent partner. If Charlie is that leader on the ice, his best traits being his skating, his gap control, excellent puck retrieval, his first pass, physicality, the rush, high level transition player, Who or what kind of style player do we think is the best matchup.

31:48 Speaker 1: We've got Will Borgan, We've got Henriyoki, Haru, Jordan Harris, Frederick Brunet, Jonathan Asbro. They all kind of have playing styles that would be a relatively good fit with the type of player that Charlie is.

32:06 Speaker 2: Well, we do know that Jonathan Astarro played alongside Charlie mcavoyd quite a bit last season. And you know, while I wouldn't qualify, Jonathan asked for row as a to.

32:20 Speaker 1: Like, what are we doing here? But I know it is what it is. No, it's just a proven It's not that we think he doesn't have what it takes. He's just so we don't know.

32:28 Speaker 2: So there's familiarity with that in terms of and there is something to be said for how confidently someone plays when they know your partner is going to be there to back you up or to cover for you.

32:41 Speaker 1: Right.

32:42 Speaker 2: How many times over the years did we talk about the fact that Berjarn and marshand knew what each other was going to do before they actually did it. Right now, it takes a long time. I'm not comparing that to them, but I guess my point is that there's a comfort level there. How I don't think that it should just be written in stone because someone is comfortable with that. Because your goal at training camp is to identify those players that are best going to execute the system that you.

33:16 Speaker 1: Want to play.

33:17 Speaker 2: And now you have an abundance of guys removing McAvoy, Lindt, Holm and Zadora from this conversation, right, You've got these guys that you need to determine, Okay, which of them is going to fit in the best spots for us? And who are going to be the odd men out exactly? And I want to see what Will Borgan brings to the table, and I'm sure everybody wants to see what with Morgan is going to bring to the table in terms of challenging the likes of Laura and Yoki, how are you? And honestly, I'm going to throw them all in this bubble.

33:55 Speaker 2: Connor Clifton should not be a given. I'm sorry, No, you should not be a given for you know, a roster spot. Sounds like that's why he wanted out of Pittsburgh because he wanted to be a regular role player. And I don't know how all of this is going to shake out. Somebody has to be traded or somebody has to be wait, and in looking at the list of the defenceman who have to clear waivers in order to be sent down, Mason Laura, Jordan Harris, Jonathan Asboro, and Henry Joki Hart.

34:28 Speaker 1: Now, you could likely lose these guys if you.

34:31 Speaker 2: Get to a point that you're unless you're contemplating some type of betray that involves one or two of Beast four guys, because you know, Don Sweeney's saying that Frederick Brune is going to get a shot too.

34:46 Speaker 1: I also like the idea of Woldborgan playing up there. The only thing that gives me slight pause is the fact that he is also a right shot defense which so is Charlie. And you don't have to be the hand of the side of the ice that you were on. But you couldn't be left handed and play on the right side. You could be right right handed and play on the left side. However, it just makes life easier. So who knows, maybe he will play substitute for Chucky. I don't know in those first couple of games, but right handed, right shot defenseman is actually a pretty valuable characteristic to have, you know, so I like him.

35:30 Speaker 1: He's got a great fit down the type of player that he is. He's a good anchor. He's a little bit older, so he has a lot of good experience. He can skate really well. He plays a simple game. He was brought in to take on some of the penalty killing responsibility from Chuckie Henry Joki harre You. He's just not a top pairing, permanent guide in my view. And I know I've used this phrase quite long often. He's a jog. He's just another guy.

36:03 Speaker 2: And it sounds disrespectful saying that, but I don't mean it disrespectfully. But when you're looking down at the decisions that one might have to make, you know, in terms of the coaches and management, somebody's got to go yeah and.

36:18 Speaker 1: Love ass bet. But I just don't know that's where he's going to land in all time. But I feel like it's still such a question mark in terms of who's gonna be Chucky's running mate. Running mate. Yeah, I feel like that job is very much so up for grabs, So I would hope to see a lot of really good competition during camp for that job. All right, let's talk about the second pair. This one's also a little bit mushy right now where we are Lynnholm he needs somebody partnered with him to be more physical because he's not a super physical two way defenceman like Charlie is more physical Lindholm is.

37:00 Speaker 1: Wouldn't you agree?

37:01 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, he's not naturally No, that's not part of his game.

37:05 Speaker 1: That's not his game more.

37:08 Speaker 2: I would call his game more of a finesque game. He's got a good stick and you've seen some good fluid skating from him and coming out of the Bruin's own end. But my concern is I've seen a decline right in that during his tenure here with the Bruins.

37:27 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the skating aspect of things. So assuming he is that on that second line. He is a left handed defenceman, so we have some now options in terms of partners. Again, Will Borgan, he's also an excellent fit with that style of partner. He is right handed, so that would be a really good pairing. He does take on a good number of minutes. He can be very physical. You just would want to be careful, I think from what I've read about in scouting reports and things, just to see whether his puck moving limitations put too much responsibility on Lindholm, and I don't know that I would want to do that because we have seen Lindholm making some more mistakes in terms of his retrieval and exits.

38:15 Speaker 1: I did like last season when he was partnered with Nikita Zadorov, and I think that that's a really good and interesting fit. He's not an anchor type, but he's definitely more active and he can create more chaos on the ice while Lindholm is doing his more finesse style of I've always enjoyed watching the two of them be out on the ice together. That's probably the most likely. However, because Zadorov is such a good floater, he might not always be his more permanent partner.

38:47 Speaker 2: And I don't think Zidorov gets the credit he deserves for his skating skills and his stick handling skills.

38:53 Speaker 1: I agreed, and he's gotten better. I remember that first season. I thought it was the first season was a nightmare for everybody. It was just an Now I think he's found his home in terms of I can play my best in Boston under these defensively focused structures, in regardless of who the coaches. What do you think about someone like Connor Clifton being that partner on the second line for his particular style of physical play, aggressive play with Hampus.

39:24 Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, he's think physical and aggressive, but I think it could work. I just worry about Connor. Clifton's game has sometimes been a little chaotic, yes, for lack of a better word. So if he can rain some of that in, I think it would be a good offset of Campus not being that physical aspect not being a regular part of Hampa's game.

39:51 Speaker 1: Clifton is aggressive, not just physically he can be aggressive, but also he is very aggressive in the pursuit of defense, meaning he's really good at gapping up and getting back into position, but he can get out of positions. Could he fill in there if Zadorov had to be moved down or up for a particular matchup, I think he would be. I think he would be successful there, just not long term. I think.

40:23 Speaker 2: I don't know as people, But of course all of this is going to be I don't want to say wiped away for the first How long is Macavoy out?

40:31 Speaker 1: Seven games? Eight games? Something? Yeah, yeah, something like that.

40:35 Speaker 2: We're basing this conversation on having Charlie in and Charlie being the number one guy.

40:41 Speaker 1: I like the idea of Jonathan Aspero playing on the second line because I do think that he works hard enough and he is skilled enough to be somewhat of a regular on that second pairing. I'm just not sure that he would provide quite as much physicality. I feel like his degree of physicality is more so comparable to the physicality that you see from Hampus, maybe a little bit more. But in comparing what else Boston has in terms of that physical aggressive play, You've got Clifton and Zdorov, So why would you then go with someone else?

41:18 Speaker 1: I don't know, but under certain circumstances. And Henry Oki, how are you? Again? He is functional, but I find him in this instance he's redundant. How is he in terms of what he can execute on any different than what Hampus can execute on? I don't know. He's like man, third pair, this is the one that is completely wide open. I don't think that we have anybody who is specifically earmarked like yep, third pair, y that's your job. I love the idea of Asboro and Connor Clifton. I think that would be a lot of fun.

41:48 Speaker 1: Zadorav and Clifton would be just absolutely bonkers. We haven't talked about LORI is this a spot where he can continue to learn and grow if you But.

42:00 Speaker 2: That's Zadorov and maybe Jordan Harris, because I really still do think that Jordan Harris has upside that we haven't. We've seen snippets of it, but we haven't been able to fully see him in action.

42:14 Speaker 1: Yeah, the problem with finding a home for Loria is he's got to be with someone who is good enough that they can do their job and babysit him. And that's unfair to the entire defensive structure and organization because everybody needs to be able to do their job and not necessarily worry about making sure that someone else is also doing their job. But you're paying the kid an absurd amount of money, So what do you do? Right? I don't know, But if you think about what Boston has, what the competition is offering a lot of these other teams, like Carolina, they are the model for complimentary pairs.

42:58 Speaker 1: They want the lottery in that regard, Colorado that is the gold standard because you have Cale mccarr and Devonte's. How could you possibly compete with what they have to offer? They effectively for what we would want to see Charlie McAvoy get in terms of constructing a defensive corps around your top player, they have that. I think Boston has good ingredients, but can they find the right mix. And we've been focused exclusively on the defensive component of this, there is still the offensive component of production from the defensive core.

43:40 Speaker 1: And again, you know, I think it was highly skewed last season because Charlie McAvoy had a career year offensively last season in fewer games, in fewer games, right, And so maybe the threshold for him is going to be even higher next year, right, because of what we saw him do last season, But the threshold for other guys needs to maybe get ramped up a little bit too, because it shouldn't be right, It shouldn't be all on Charlie for.

44:11 Speaker 2: That component of the defensive core. There needs to be a little bit more of a balancing act there. Now, Charlie did spend a hell of a lot more time on power play units than some of the other guys did, but still a component that the coaching staff is going to have to try and balance and juggle with trying to fill some of these roles and you know, it's not to say that. Okay, the season starts and we've got some pairings in place, but things aren't flowing the way that one might expect them to, and that can't shuffle things around.

44:47 Speaker 2: But it will be interesting to see who will be odd man out and how that takes place, because it would be not a good look on the part of Don Sweeney if any of the guys that I mentioned earlier who have to clear waivers and you lose them for nothing, and that would be Mason Laura, Jordan Harris, Asparrow and Henry Joki. How are you it might happen, and if it does, it could it might leave a mark.

45:15 Speaker 1: Yeah, we have a lot of really good pieces. The question is can the coaching staff put together the best pieces for the most ideal outcome? Does that mean guys coming in and out with regularity? I don't know, and I don't love.

45:33 Speaker 3: That idea too much because you creating, you don't want a rotation or evolving door here trying to figure out who your pairings are ultimately going to be, you know, right, And my reality is I'm not I wouldn't call this a significantly improved defensive corps from last season, I would.

45:52 Speaker 1: Not No, No, you still have any unknowns. You have a lot of guys, but very few absolutes. Unfortunate, and so I think we're going to be spending the first month of the season. We're going to have to keep a close eye on these different players and see how they are working with the partners that they have and can they get the job done? And I don't like that feeling, Maria.

46:16 Speaker 2: No, We've seen it seems like, what are we going into the third season now of this? Do we know what we even have yet? And the answer is still really not really after your top guys and we'll get into that in more depth when we talk about the forwards. But the one thing you can say, there's going to be no shortage of competition I would think in training camp or spast Yeah. Yeah, So that said, do you have any closing thoughts, my friend? Excellent work by you on your breakdown. I appreciate it.

46:49 Speaker 1: We're in better shape and worse shape than I thought.

46:53 Speaker 2: Welcome to the life of a Boston Bruins fan these days.

46:58 Speaker 1: Well, we will post on our substack a little bit more of this in depth, because that was a ton of information that we had, so let us know who do.

47:08 Speaker 2: You think would be the most ideal pairings. It's a great exercise. Yeah, I'd like to hear our listeners' thoughts on their projected pairings as well. So with that said, you can find us on our socials at tape to Tape MK and on substack at tape to tapemk dot substack dot com. Please make sure to like and subscribe for more content and leave a rating and review to help other Bruins fans find us. You can also support a podcast by joining our Patreon. With that said, any closing thoughts, Go Bees, Go Ruins.

47:58 Speaker 2: Still still