The Bruins' $11 Million Goaltending Question | Ep. 147

0:00 Speaker 1: Hey Bruins fam. This week's episode was recorded last week before the Carolina Hurricanes won their second ever franchise Stanley Cup. Well, we can't say we're Carolina superfans. We were thrilled to see a number of former Bruins win the Ultimate Prize, especially Taylor Hall and Brandon Bussy. This week's topic of conversation around Bruins goaltending is really timely considering Bussy's meteoric rise within the Hurricanes organization. Now, I know you are all well informed listeners, but here's a little reminder of how Bussy left the Bruins organization and ended up in Raleigh.

0:45 Speaker 1: Bussy had started his AHL career with the p Bruins and was a member of the team for three seasons. Like many things in life, timing determined his future career path. In July of twenty twenty five, the Bruins did not make him an offer and to hit the market, where he signed a one year, two way contract with the Florida Panthers. Florida found themselves in a situation where they had to send him down, but because Bussy was and still is waiver eligible, he had to go on the waiver wire. In order to report to the team's AHL affiliate.

1:24 Speaker 1: During that very brief window of time, Carolina snapped him up and the rest is history. You will most certainly hear and read grumblings that Boston screwed this one up, but you have to remember one of Boston's strengths has been a solid pipeline of excellent goaltending. It's been literal decades since Boston has gone seasons with a sieve in between the pipes. There will be criticisms levied at Bruin's management that Bussy was never given a chance or quote, we could have had a cup level guy for less than a million, But those are unrealistic arguments that are likely rooted and misguided bias.

2:10 Speaker 1: And don't think that this is me suddenly becoming a huge fan of management. Please, if you've listened awhile, you know how I feel. But to the point that Bussy was never given a real opportunity, I ask this, when would you have been willing to bring him up? Because when Bussy signed his entry level contract in March of twenty twenty two, the Bruins had the incredible tandem of Linis Almark and Jeremy Swayman running the show back there, so how could you possibly interrupt that chemistry and flow.

2:43 Speaker 1: It was the perfect season. When it came time for Boston to put more eggs in someone's basket in June of twenty twenty four, management chose Swayman. I won't debate that decision now, and I couldn't tell you why management opted to bring in Corpusolo over Bussy. I don't know. There can be many good reasons as well as many stupid ones and mistakes. Regardless, the twenty twenty four twenty twenty five season was a disaster in so many ways. Not one single thing could have really fixed it, including bringing up Bussy.

3:22 Speaker 1: And while bringing up players from the AHL can be a good way to shake things up with the skaters, it doesn't quite work the same for goalies. All the while, more and more goalies in Providence have been clamoring for more attention leading up to the point that he left. Think Michael d Pietro and Simon Zychek. Carolina was incredibly lucky to snap up Brandon Bussy, and he won hundred percent deserves all the flowers. But for Bruins fans, remember just because his name is on the Cup now, does doesn't mean that he could have been just as successful in Boston.

4:04 Speaker 1: He had an unbelievable team in front of him this season, and as we've discussed, the Boston Bruins are nowhere near that good right now. So when you listen to today's episode, save yourself the stress and don't yell at us about Brandon Bussy. We know enjoy.

4:24 Speaker 2: Can you start a podcast with me?

4:25 Speaker 1: Please?

4:27 Speaker 2: I need something to do a drug sit it out in trumble about to the same.

4:38 Speaker 1: Castach today, here's a chance pot right down with goalie Scars. Oh my, one move by the rookie too on one Faster Not moving in with Marsha tounchtime on oil dances in't badcasting right home right away, going to Foster, Notchester.

5:04 Speaker 2: What's that?

5:13 Speaker 1: Welcome in everyone to another episode of Bruins Tape to tape. I'm your host today, Caroline with a K, and I am joined by my fantastic co host Maria from Watertown. Hey Maria, Hello, Hello, how's it going today?

5:26 Speaker 2: My friend?

5:28 Speaker 1: It's going as always and it's a better day because we get to talk about hockey. What can I say?

5:33 Speaker 2: Oh, your favorite position or one of your favorite positions.

5:37 Speaker 1: Absolutely, Today we're going to be talking goaltending and your favorite topic around goaltending, which is how much money do each of these teams have wrapped up in goaltending? And is the Boston Bruins situation worth the chunk of change that our goaltenders occupy? Well? Do you like to stir the pot? What can I say?

6:02 Speaker 2: This conversation is a lightning rod conversation in my area I meant right directly in Boston. It is nothing short of sports talk radio fodder every time the goalie situation in Boston comes up and the amount of money that is allocated to said goaltenders, particularly one young man Jared Simon, when everyone has a variety of opinions on that. All right, So, as wonderful as Tim Thomas was and as spectacular as his play was, he certainly didn't make it easy on expectations and contracts. And listen, I'm of the mindset that do you need really good goaltending?

6:50 Speaker 2: A frigging course, you do because a goaltender when you was Stanley Cup on his own, No, because somebody still has to put the goddamn pop in the net.

7:01 Speaker 1: Yes, Well, one point that I always like to make not just because I'm a fan of goalies, but I'm a parent of a goalie, and this isn't just my random opinion. I know that this is a broadly misunderstood position and the expectations are often not very realistic when you've got people who don't necessarily understand the position and what they're supposed to be doing and what they should actually be able to do. And you know, I will always defend the goaltenders. Can a goalie lose a game? Sure, I'm not saying that a loss isn't ever a goalie's fault, but you have to remember, as you perfectly pointed out, is a goaltender the only reason why they win a game or a Stanley Cup.

7:47 Speaker 1: No, you can't win a game just with one superstar player.

7:51 Speaker 2: You have to.

7:51 Speaker 1: Remember goalies in that same breath that if a team loses, it isn't always necessarily because of the goalie, right. I think the Boston Bruins this year great example, especially of the fact that how many times did we see both of our goaltenders play lights out?

8:09 Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, how many times did we say, if it weren't for them, the game would have gotten out of hand. Or Yes, the goalie gave the team a chance to win, a chance to come back because they were making these saves. Yes.

8:25 Speaker 1: The other point that I would like to throw out there because I think now, granted I don't listen to the Boston Talk sports radio, you do the lard's work in that regard.

8:35 Speaker 2: You listen to that, and sometimes I feel the need to respond to it, folks, when I think the conversation is so ludicrous that I can't stand it any longer.

8:45 Speaker 1: Yes, So, for whatever reason, forever, goaltenders have been paid less, have been valued, like literally in terms of money, less than skaters. And it's not really hard to see why the skaters can have a more exciting game. They score the goals. You have to score goals to win games. I will always make the argument. You can disagree, but I will tell you you're wrong that the hardest position on the ice is the goaltender. It's the hardest position to play. You are the last line of defense. Mentally, psychologically, it's the hardest position to be in on the ice because even if the goal wasn't your fault, because your teammate was in the wrong place and tipped it in.

9:38 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if the goalie is always gonna take that and shoulder that burden. But regardless, my counter argument has always been to a lot of what the talking heads have said in Boston is you should just pay your goalie. Why are you afraid to pay your goaltender? Is your goalie good, yes, then why not pay them? On Paul are with your top players. If you're one of your best players just happens to be a goalie, why does he have to work for a discount compared to the skaters?

10:13 Speaker 2: And the contrarian argument to that is, in the instance of the conversation, the specific conversation that we're going to be having about Jeremy Swayman and Jonis Corposalo is the fact that the Bruins had been playing this to tandem system for quite some time. Yeah, and pretty much games were being split evenly, right, And so then it comes time for Jeremy Swayman to get his first big deal, maybe his only big deal, right unless the Bruins at some point move on from him, because he did sign a team friendly contract, because I believe that AAV becomes very reasonable were the tenure of that contract.

11:01 Speaker 2: But The issue for him was that the fact and I was in this camp where I was saying, you've only played half the games. I need to see what you do if you're going to be if you're going to be the number one guy, right and you say you yourself have said you want to be that guy, I need to see how you perform, or I would like to see how you perform when you're playing upwards of sixty games or close to sixty games as opposed to just splitting them, and then you can talk to me about what I believe your value is.

11:38 Speaker 2: That didn't happen that way, right because you needed to do something something, a deal needed to be had or this player was likely going to walk away with you getting nothing in return. So I understand the frustration with handing someone eight point something million dollars when you're saying to yourself, what has he done yet to earn that eight point something million dollars?

12:08 Speaker 1: But that's not how sports works.

12:11 Speaker 2: Sports and these contracts work on what is the market value? What has the market value been set out? We've seen it happen numerous and countless times with the Fensman with centers, with forwards, and it happens with the goalies too, right, So do I think that's a lot of money for a goal tender, Yes, But when you compare it to money that's being made by other goals in the league, I'm not going to say that Swiman looks like a bargain, but he's not getting He's not getting the same as some other elite goalies are.

12:48 Speaker 1: Really, what really just drives me nuts about that argument that's being made is, Okay, sure, when he was asking for that money, he'd only played fifty percent, I get it. Who among if you had an opportunity to shoot your shot, why wouldn't you take it? He clearly had the talent and the skills. I don't think that anyone denied that he was even then, particularly exceptional in terms of goaltending ability. And we went from Tim Thomas to touk Arask. We have very high expectations, not just defensively of our team, but of our goaltenders.

13:23 Speaker 2: When you're professing to be a defensive minded, defensively structured team, you better have really good goaltending and you better have really the decore.

13:33 Speaker 1: Yes, you've seen teams that don't have that guy in the crease, even though they have the guys out in front Edmonton Pittsburgh. You still need the guy to get the job done. It's part of the package deal. But okay, fine, I get that. What I don't understand is why is there still this perseveration over the fact that I can't believe he's making that much money. The season after or the season that he signed that deal wasn't good, but the entire season wasn't good, everybody.

14:10 Speaker 2: He wasn't in camp. He wasn't in scraining camp, which that's that is a bit significant. You're not there with the guys. You know, maybe some guys were pissed off too. That could have been some of what fractured that locker room, right or wrong on Swaymen's part or his agent's part. Right. I don't think either side handled themselves well during those negotiations, right, But this is the guy that you all everyone there was no disagreement about the fact that organization wanted Swayman to be the guy, and Swayman wants to be and wanted to be the guy.

14:49 Speaker 1: Yeah. And obviously the reason why this is a continued point of conversation on the Boston sports radio waves is because it's no no, no, it is it is.

15:02 Speaker 2: Look at how much money it couldn't even make the playoffs. Tim Thomas won you a Stanley Cup? Yes, okay, how many fricking years ago was that we're talking about twenty eleven? And he had an out of body experience right, an out of body experience in twenty eleven during the playoffs.

15:23 Speaker 1: It's so on brand for Boston sports talk radio to find a player to make scape go or to bitch and moan about.

15:31 Speaker 2: And before Slayman, it was Tuka Ress who was in their crosshairs. And I had my issues with Tuca, although I will give him credit that when it was time for him to negotiate his deal, he was like, let me play out this season, let me show you that I'm worthy, and he put his money where his mouth was and he got his deal. Now, were there instances where you would say, oh, Tuca, what the hell, what the hell where you do? But to lay all of the blame on the missed opportunities that core of Boston Bruins had on the feet of tukarasp is lazy takes.

16:10 Speaker 1: And that was my whole point about the position is it's easy.

16:14 Speaker 2: It's very easy. You can get all the glory and all the blame, right. It kills. I'm just gonna go off on a tangentcy It kills. It absolutely kills certain members of local Boston sports talk radio to if knowledge when Jeremy Swayman plays well, it absolutely freaking kills them to say he played well, he kept them in the game.

16:38 Speaker 1: Why do you want him to be bad?

16:43 Speaker 2: Good? So they can point their finger and say, see, see, look at this team. They only have a total of eight million dollars invested in goalies. Where you're paying this guy over eight million dollars just for one guy.

16:56 Speaker 1: It's first of all, your money, So who cares?

17:01 Speaker 2: It's not like, can you give a hext other than the fact is I can't say that. I don't. I can't even believe I'm defending them. The only rational argument for that is that you're tying up money in an area where you know you have other needs when you're doing a rebuild. If your roster was all hunky dory and you didn't have significant holes and gaps in them, then I could say, what do you care? It's not your money when you look overall, and we're going to talk about this, when you look overall at how much money the Boston Bruins have tied up in just two players.

17:35 Speaker 2: Then you can say, hmm, this is a problem when you're trying to do a rebuild here, or a reboot or a restart or refresher, whatever the hell you want to call it.

17:44 Speaker 1: So let's talk about the money and the amount of money it's tied up in it. Because one thing that you said before is this concept of market value. And I know this is one of your favorite quotes because it was a dumb ass quote from a stupid young man who have thought he knew what he was saying and he should have just kept his damn mouth shut.

18:05 Speaker 2: And he knows nothing of the world yet nothing.

18:08 Speaker 1: However, just because it was stupid doesn't mean that there was some truth in it. I'm referring to Jeremy Swiman's talking about wanting to reset the goalie market. Now, let me say this first, and you said this, there are times when forward players, especially because they're the highest page, do exactly that they reset the market. I think we all remember. God now was probably about five or six, maybe even seven years ago when I want to say it was Connor McDavid or it was Leandreisidel, one of the first skaters to crack the ten million mark, and that became the line where you identify elite skaters forwards and the rest.

18:52 Speaker 1: Most notably this season, Carill capriz Off has now pushed that line almost to twenty million dollars. He's making I believe here it is seventeen million per year. Full no move. If he hasn't set the new market rate for elite players, he's propelling that new market rate to the twenty million line for any other elite players who are still sitting on old contracts. That's the nature of pro sports. Jeremy Swayman and his stupid youth aside, why can't a goalie do the exact same thing effectively? He has, as much as we don't want to admit that his idiotic comment, We've known for years that goalies have been underpaid for the value that they bring to a team in general.

19:49 Speaker 1: The fact that elite goalies were only making three or four million dollars when you had someone like Connor McDavid making thirteen or fourteen. How could you have such a spread for a position that, yes, I'm gonna say it's the most important position on the ice, but you really can't even compare it to anything else. So why is that one that much less? Since then, we have seen other signings. Now again, you can agree or disagree with the value of those contracts when you hear these names, but it doesn't change the fact that basically, since Swayman got his eight million dollar deal, that is now the new dividing line.

20:28 Speaker 1: That is the new Here's where the elite, Here's where are our the guy is versus not the guy, that's the difference. So you have the most well paid goalie right now in the entire league, Igor Schusterkin. He signed his deal not too long ago for eleven to five. But then also you have someone from Vancouver, yep, Thatcher Demco who is has been tapped as there the guy in twenty twenty six. His contract extension kicks in eight point five. So that's kind of the direction that things are starting to move in.

21:11 Speaker 1: These guys are going to be making more and more money. Now, is it always necessarily wise? That's a different conversation, and I think that it is should be considered independent of at least in terms of the Boston Bruins, independent of Swaymen and Corpus Salo's abilities, at least for this conversation, because we know that they are good players. Let's focus maybe the conversation not so much on I can't believe they have eleven point two five million dollars in those two guys, but rather in one position.

21:46 Speaker 1: And why is that maybe a good or bad idea?

21:49 Speaker 2: I think I think if you gave Don Sweeney and Cam Neely some truth serum, they would have preferred to have moved Jonas Corposalo either in the off season. Well, they couldn't have. They couldn't do it the year that they were negotiating with Swimming, because we would have been screwed and tattooed if that pulled out lasted longer than it actually did. But you have other viable alternatives in Providence, and I think because you had no options between the negotiations and the start of the season that you were boxed in by these two guys.

22:28 Speaker 2: Now we all know that the two goalie system seems to be kind of a Neuveau idea that has taken off, and it is serving teams well to have two solid goaltenders that you can rely on. The question is do you still need an elite goaltender to take you to the promised Land, or at least give you a chance to get to the promised land. I mean, you've got to identify a number one guy, the guy that's going to be your go to guy, the guy that's going to stop the bleeding when you're potentially looking at a three, four, five game losing streak.

23:11 Speaker 2: You want the guy that you know what you're going to get when you're looking at a four or five six game series in the playoffs. Right, Yeah. I think if things had played out differently with Swayman in terms of how the negotiations did or didn't go, I'm not really sure that Jonas Corposalo would still be a member of the Boston Bruins. I'm not sure he's still going to be a member of the Boston Bruins come the upcoming season. I don't think he should be. I think you've got to get that money off your books, ASA sure.

23:43 Speaker 1: Think about it also in the context of looking at other teams with clear starting guys. All right, the Winnipeg Jets, Connor Hallibuch makes eight point five. He played sixty nine percent of the games this past season. Jeremy Swiman played sixty seven percent of the game, So Hellabuk had fifty seven games played. If you also look at Jay Gottinger, who I think is the other big comparable, he's obviously a key guy eight two five, he played fifty four games, So that's sixty almost sixty six percent.

24:23 Speaker 1: Those are your comparables.

24:24 Speaker 2: They're in the window of the ballpark of what they should be making their partner.

24:29 Speaker 1: Let's then think about what their partner is making. Right. So in Dallas, Casey de Smith took on the backup role just a little over a million, and for Winnipeg, Connor Hellibuck's partner, Eric Commery eight twenty five Unics corpus Sollo, he's making three now three million dollars in the grand scheme of things whatever. However, when you have in Providence multiple goalies, the good goalies, when you have multiples of the same thing, either on the team or in your pipeline, why wouldn't you bring in the one that is a little bit younger, So they're going to be cheaper, you have them for longer.

25:09 Speaker 1: You can also simultaneously develop them, and that's what you have, especially in Tpietrow he's going to be coming in and likely forever long. His contract deal is making minimum salary and could potentially provide the same level of play that we saw from Unis Corpusolo. In fact, d Pietro did have his one game where he played briefly and he survived, so that was good.

25:35 Speaker 2: Now, things that I think Jeremy Swayman needs to work on is I would like to see him play more games. I think the issue is when he is playing a significant number of games in a row, maybe his level of play drops off a little bit. That doesn't help the contrarians who are always looking at the eight point two five go and see CC. But I just as a matter of mathematics, eleven point two five million dollars tied up in players who quote unquote are not full time players is a lot. And I think that Jonas is the one.

26:15 Speaker 2: And Jonas has made noise in the fat in the past about wanting to play more games, you know, maybe taking on a more significant goalie role on a team. But I don't think it's sustainable to keep both of these guys. Jonas wants to play more games, Jeremy, you're paying him to be your number one guy, so you've got to give him the net. If he's going to be your number one guy, something has to give here. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if conversations aren't already occurring about moving Yonus pull us out.

26:50 Speaker 1: And if you think about it in terms of what he's bringing to the table, If we go back to the stats, the goals saved above expected, Jeremy Swayman had a phenomenal season period end of sentence, like you can't like independent again he was as a candidate. He was avet a candidate like right least, so you know he had a phenomenal season statistically, regardless of his load management. He had a twenty eight point eight goals saved above expected, and Unis corpus Allo, for as clutch as he was in very key moments, making that timely save in the moment you truly need it, whether it's for momentum, purposes, morale, he had it.

27:33 Speaker 1: He was there. But on paper his goals save above expected was a minus one. He played thirty one games, and he was probably better than some starting goalies, and he could be a good starter for a team that is almost there and needs just a little bit better goaltending. Because look, when it comes to the Stanley Cup Finals, the most elite goaltend doesn't have to be in the Stanley Cup Final, but that elite goaltender is going to get you to cross that line to get into the playoffs and can make a huge difference.

28:11 Speaker 1: And then where it goes from there, that's the final see.

28:14 Speaker 2: And I think that's the argument that crops up here is when you look at the two teams that are in the Stanley Cup Finals right now, Vegas Golden Knights and the Carolina Hurricanes, who don't have this kind of coin tied up in their goaltending. But what people fail to look at is well, what kind of a team do they have in front of them? Okay, exactly system that they're playing in front of these goaltenders.

28:43 Speaker 1: Those are goalies that are good enough, and unfortunately for Boston, as we mentioned in our previous episode, Boston is a ways away at least from having the skating team out front having that level of compete. But again to your point, and I think everyone's kind of on the same page, and granted Corpusolos he's still signed actually shockingly through twenty twenty eight.

29:09 Speaker 2: Yes, so the season two more seasons and then he becomes a UFA. Now I might know, does his contract have any no trade clause in it? Or it does.

29:20 Speaker 1: This was signed when Corpusolo and he was in Ottawa. He has a ten team no trade list, so it's still pretty wide open where he could go. At this point. He's not a player that you are trading because oh god, we got to get rid of him because he's causing damage like Mason Lori. But he's certainly elevated his game and has become valuable in that regard.

29:46 Speaker 2: No, but he could certainly be part of an attractive package to a team who is desperate for goaltender. And I always go back to the Edmonton Oilers and Toronto. Do they have a goal? Not that you want to do an conference deal, but right, right, yeah, but I think we're in agreement that the money is too much to have tied up in two players. Yes, Jeremy Swayman's not going anywhere.

30:10 Speaker 1: And Swayman's not the one actually getting quote unquote overpaid right in this in this example, Yeah, yeah, right, you're just looking at it from a market value perspective. You've got your starter who's making eight across the board, and you've got your backup probably making about one and change at most, which is crazy because we've seen the evolution of how teams are using their goaltenders twenty five years ago. Twenty years ago, you had one guy playing seventy five to eighty games out of eighty two.

30:48 Speaker 1: This coming fall, they're going to be eighty four games, and then it switched to more. We never saw league wide the fifty to fifty. I think that was still pretty unique to Boston, but still doing a sixty forty. And now we're kind of inching more back towards maybe a seventy thirty. And as your starter gets closer and closer to those seventy percent of games, it's not going to make sense to be paying your backup three million dollars financially, it's not going to make sense.

31:22 Speaker 2: It just doesn't. I don't want to say it's a waste of money, but that money could be put to better use in other areas of your roster right now.

31:31 Speaker 1: Yes, anyways, we'd love to hear from the listeners. What do you think an ideal salary matchup would be for or a reasonable expectation is for a salary combo of your starter and your backup because it's changing again. I think in five years we're going to look back and be like, Yep, this was the time when that makeup started to change. And it's interesting because things related to goalies that doesn't change very long. The popular styles of play can change, but what the goalie is doing does not change much.

32:05 Speaker 1: Any final thoughts, Maria, Any additional rants?

32:09 Speaker 2: No, No, I think I've covered what I needed to cover with regard to this specific topic of conversation, which sets me over the edge because it's just an ongoing Let's find the whipping boy, and it's been the mantle and the torch has been passed from Tukarask to now Jeremy Swayman to some degree. Yeap. Frustrating.

32:29 Speaker 1: Nonetheless, until the Bruins win another Stanley Cup, probably every goaltender will go through that experience.

32:36 Speaker 2: Yes, you're likely correct. On that, You're likely correct.

32:40 Speaker 1: Make sure you like and subscribe for more content, and be sure to leave a rating and review to help other Bruins fans find us. You can support the podcast by joining our Patreon or following us on our socials at Tape to Tape MK and on substack at tape to tape mk dot, substack dot com. Any final words.

32:58 Speaker 2: I think that I am ready to get out and play some golf.

33:02 Speaker 1: Awesome. I'm as always go

33:04 Speaker 2: Bees, sober ones,