Defining Defense: How the Bruins Can Re-Build | Ep. 89

0:00 Speaker 1: Welcome.

0:00 Speaker 2: Can you start a podcast with me? Please? I need

0:04 Speaker 2: something to do.

0:13 Speaker 3: I'll sack sit it out in trouble. I canna say

0:15 Speaker 3: this past watch tonight. Here's a chance pops right down

0:21 Speaker 3: the goalie scars. Oh my wa a move by the

0:24 Speaker 3: rookie two on one plaster.

0:25 Speaker 4: Not movie with Marshaw getting to it.

0:29 Speaker 2: Oil dances in Pakistan right way corner Pasternchester.

0:40 Speaker 5: What's that?

0:51 Speaker 4: Welcome in everyone to another episode of Bruin's Tape to Tape.

0:55 Speaker 4: I will be your hopes tonight. I am Maria from Watertown.

1:00 Speaker 4: If you're watching us on YouTube, you will see that.

1:04 Speaker 4: In addition to my lovely co host Caroline with a K,

1:08 Speaker 4: we are also joined by a very familiar and friendly

1:14 Speaker 4: face of our podcast, Mo aka Professor Mo. And we

1:21 Speaker 4: are going to be doing our second segment that correlates

1:27 Speaker 4: with several articles that Mo has written on Substack, and

1:33 Speaker 4: tonight's episode is going to be focused on the doctrine defense. Now,

1:40 Speaker 4: we had previously released our episode that was the doctrine

1:46 Speaker 4: of the philosophy of our forward lines and you know,

1:51 Speaker 4: the breaking down the differences between first line, second line,

1:58 Speaker 4: third line, fourth line. Tonight, we're going to be talking about,

2:02 Speaker 4: for me, what I've always been passionate about as it

2:06 Speaker 4: relates to hockey, and that is defense, because I am

2:11 Speaker 4: a firm believer that you build a team from the

2:15 Speaker 4: back end forward that starts with goaltending, which we will

2:21 Speaker 4: get to in another episode, and defense, and so I

2:26 Speaker 4: am really excited to hear your thought process and your

2:32 Speaker 4: philosophy on that. So welcome in, Mel, Thank you for

2:37 Speaker 4: joining us for another episode.

2:39 Speaker 6: We really appreciate it.

2:41 Speaker 2: I love you guys having me. I appreciate it. Thank

2:43 Speaker 2: you guys.

2:45 Speaker 6: We enjoy picking that weird brain.

2:49 Speaker 2: It's gonna get weird, don't worry.

2:52 Speaker 6: And I'm always entertaining always.

2:56 Speaker 2: I'm not even high tonight, so you are all sober weird.

3:00 Speaker 7: So well, we love it, and I'm excited to hear,

3:05 Speaker 7: particularly what you think about defensive pairing roles, because the

3:11 Speaker 7: Boston Bruins have for.

3:15 Speaker 6: Decades at this point, had a very strong defensive philosophy

3:22 Speaker 6: to their game, to the point where sometimes to their detriment.

3:26 Speaker 4: Sometimes in the vetrimal past it's been to their detriment, yes,

3:30 Speaker 4: but they've even so much as brought that philosophy down

3:33 Speaker 4: in Providence, so that way there they wouldn't miss a

3:37 Speaker 4: beat if they brought someone up, whether it was for

3:39 Speaker 4: one game or for twenty five.

3:42 Speaker 6: So enlighten us on what you think these defensive pairings

3:49 Speaker 6: should be doing out there.

3:51 Speaker 4: And can we just first start this by saying that

3:57 Speaker 4: the goat number four or Robert Gordon Orr forever changed

4:04 Speaker 4: how defenceman play hockey.

4:08 Speaker 6: MM one Back in the day.

4:14 Speaker 1: They basically just stood back there and try to stop

4:19 Speaker 1: the puck. And he completely revolutionized the game by actually

4:23 Speaker 1: participating in the game, dance.

4:27 Speaker 6: Dancing through, dancing through the other team.

4:31 Speaker 4: So, yeah, just just he was I know, you guys

4:37 Speaker 4: are you're both you know, a lot younger than I am,

4:41 Speaker 4: but just having watched a guy like that play and

4:49 Speaker 4: just the beauty and the fluidness to his skill level,

4:56 Speaker 4: you know. And it sounds corny to say this, but

4:58 Speaker 4: I always knew that when I had kids, they were

5:02 Speaker 4: going to be defenceman.

5:04 Speaker 6: First.

5:08 Speaker 2: That's funny because my dad forced me to play defense first.

5:12 Speaker 4: Two, well, your dad's a wise man, because there are

5:19 Speaker 4: very many reasons for that.

5:21 Speaker 6: I'm going to go quickly on this tangent.

5:23 Speaker 4: You become a much better skater when you start off

5:28 Speaker 4: playing defense. Because you need to learn the art of pivoting, turning,

5:36 Speaker 4: skating backwards as opposed to when you're a forward, your

5:41 Speaker 4: progression line is pretty much straight.

5:44 Speaker 2: Up yep yep, And I mean that's a that's basically

5:48 Speaker 2: an episode in itself. But when you think about it,

5:52 Speaker 2: I mean the defense you you mess up your crossover

5:57 Speaker 2: at the wrong time beforeward, it's going to go one

5:58 Speaker 2: way and then go around you. Yeah, that's why Connor

6:01 Speaker 2: McDavid is so good because you never know where he's

6:03 Speaker 2: going to go, which is why you always assume he's

6:06 Speaker 2: going to try to go left, right, left, right, left right.

6:08 Speaker 2: You kind of just stay in the middle and let

6:10 Speaker 2: him dance. But what what you could do is, you know,

6:14 Speaker 2: I mean, like you said, you pivot, you turn forward,

6:16 Speaker 2: you skate forwards with it. You know, you just kind

6:18 Speaker 2: of fill that gap. And I mean, if you're just

6:20 Speaker 2: always going to be a forward, you don't really learn

6:23 Speaker 2: that stuff. So it's it was one of those things

6:27 Speaker 2: that definitely helped me in my plane. Well I guess

6:30 Speaker 2: my I didn't even play in career, but my my minor, minor, minor,

6:35 Speaker 2: minor hockey plane. So it was fun.

6:40 Speaker 4: Explain to us again because you know, we hear this

6:43 Speaker 4: this terminology quite often. You know, your top pairing defenceman,

6:49 Speaker 4: then your second pair and your third third group, so

6:55 Speaker 4: you know what what is what is the mindset behind

6:59 Speaker 4: you know, so identifying who your top pairing guys are

7:03 Speaker 4: and it's second pair, third pair.

7:06 Speaker 2: D mend Yep. Yeah, I think a lot of this

7:09 Speaker 2: is going to kind of mirror what you do with

7:11 Speaker 2: the forwards. And when I always think about it is

7:17 Speaker 2: I want my defense to complement my forwards and vice versa.

7:20 Speaker 2: You don't always want your top pair defense to go

7:23 Speaker 2: out with your top line because you, in my mind,

7:28 Speaker 2: your your top defenceman, your top two defencemen, right, they

7:33 Speaker 2: they should assist with your with your offense. They should

7:38 Speaker 2: kind of help push I guess that offensive kind of

7:43 Speaker 2: mindset where maybe they're not the most steady defensively, which

7:48 Speaker 2: is why they might not always play with your top

7:51 Speaker 2: line because you don't want, you know, your your your

7:53 Speaker 2: carlson to play with your poster knock if they both

7:56 Speaker 2: the defense. So but I mean that's why the kind

8:03 Speaker 2: of the door off signing was so intriguing because he

8:06 Speaker 2: he wasn't Chara, but he kind of reminded you a

8:09 Speaker 2: little bit of Chara who I mean, for all points

8:13 Speaker 2: and purposes, he was your number one defenseman when you

8:15 Speaker 2: know they won the Cup. You know, he was a leader.

8:17 Speaker 2: He wasn't always the most offensive person, but the dude

8:21 Speaker 2: had a cannon for a shot. His defense was almost perfect.

8:26 Speaker 2: No one stayed in front of the net, and you're

8:28 Speaker 2: kind of hoping that's what theador off was. So, yeah,

8:31 Speaker 2: they don't always have to be your top offensive, but

8:34 Speaker 2: they either need to be your your team's leader, if

8:38 Speaker 2: that's where you want him to be, or they need

8:41 Speaker 2: to be that guy that can you know, move the

8:44 Speaker 2: offensive forward and and and help those forwards almost become better.

8:50 Speaker 4: So it's it's all in my mind, a toper top

8:55 Speaker 4: peering guys to me, defensively are the guys that the

9:00 Speaker 4: other team should be skid shit of to skate into

9:03 Speaker 4: the zone and be worried about what's coming at them,

9:08 Speaker 4: you know, And I don't know that.

9:10 Speaker 6: An old school to the game.

9:14 Speaker 2: Right, Well, think.

9:16 Speaker 1: About it, right, we talked a lot about fear.

9:22 Speaker 6: But like how even in the recent years that position

9:24 Speaker 6: has changed, right we joke that the Norris Trophy is

9:29 Speaker 6: no longer for what a defenseman actually what their job

9:33 Speaker 6: actually is. It's for someone who is just an offensive

9:36 Speaker 6: defenseman at this point, and it's no longer for that

9:42 Speaker 6: player who is truly a defensive defenseman, which is I

9:46 Speaker 6: think what you kind of think of in terms of,

9:51 Speaker 6: you know, what defensemen used to exclusively be, and I

9:54 Speaker 6: don't think that that's the case necessarily anymore for a

9:57 Speaker 6: multitude of reasons. I think that philosop of like we

10:02 Speaker 6: referenced in our previous episode about how Jim Montgomery activated

10:07 Speaker 6: the D, I see a lot more of that. I

10:09 Speaker 6: think that is a USA hockey at least, you know,

10:14 Speaker 6: in the United States, and I think in Canada they're

10:17 Speaker 6: very similar models. But it's training kids in youth hockey,

10:23 Speaker 6: and like I see that with my kid in youth hockey,

10:26 Speaker 6: where they're really putting an emphasis on playing all positions

10:31 Speaker 6: and they're not even having them commit to a position

10:36 Speaker 6: now until I think a lot later than they used to.

10:40 Speaker 6: So you have a lot of a lot more offensively

10:44 Speaker 6: skilled defenceman out there who can do all of those things.

10:49 Speaker 6: So well, when you're thinking about this top line, how

10:54 Speaker 6: much of it is a coach's philosophy or or just

11:01 Speaker 6: what's available in terms of the makeup of the two

11:05 Speaker 6: players that are on that in that pairing?

11:09 Speaker 8: Is it you you try to to match up an

11:14 Speaker 8: offensive defenseman with the defensive defenseman.

11:19 Speaker 6: Does the defensive defenseman tend to find themselves more in

11:23 Speaker 6: a in a lower pairing position for specific use, like,

11:29 Speaker 6: what is your philosophy on that?

11:32 Speaker 2: Yep? So I mean you've you've got different styles of defensemen,

11:35 Speaker 2: Like you said, right, you got the offensive defenseman, You're

11:39 Speaker 2: you're kind of two way defenseman, you're shut down guy

11:43 Speaker 2: who really doesn't too much offense, and then just the

11:46 Speaker 2: kind of the guy that's like the jack of all trades.

11:48 Speaker 2: So the way I see it as your offensive defenseman

11:51 Speaker 2: is like a guy like low RAI, where you're you're

11:54 Speaker 2: gonna get more offense or more offensive opportunities out of him,

11:58 Speaker 2: but his defense will kind of lack a little bit.

12:03 Speaker 2: So I always would like to pair him with not

12:07 Speaker 2: someone that's the same, because you're basically begging for disaster.

12:11 Speaker 2: And in my mind, I only really want one or

12:14 Speaker 2: two of those guys because you're only gonna have six

12:16 Speaker 2: defenseman dressed, so I have I have know more. So

12:20 Speaker 2: he's probably your top power play specialist that's going to.

12:24 Speaker 4: Ideally you would want one of those guys to be

12:26 Speaker 4: on one of your power play units.

12:29 Speaker 2: Yep, and probably not. He's probably not a penalty kill guy,

12:31 Speaker 2: or he is if if you need it. So I

12:34 Speaker 2: mean playing him with with a guy that's probably a

12:36 Speaker 2: little bit two way. You don't want to play him

12:38 Speaker 2: with someone that's that's purely defense defense because they're they're

12:43 Speaker 2: going to slow that that line down because they're probably

12:46 Speaker 2: playing with the top two lines. So if someone's a

12:48 Speaker 2: little bit slower, like a peek or a spoon, it's

12:52 Speaker 2: going to be not really the best complimentary kind of

12:56 Speaker 2: dynamic there. So in my mind, you're going to someone

13:00 Speaker 2: that's that's more two ways. So a guy like McAvoy

13:03 Speaker 2: is perfect. You know, he can skate, he can hit,

13:06 Speaker 2: he can be that physical guy, but he also doesn't

13:09 Speaker 2: have to put the pressure on himself to always score.

13:12 Speaker 2: And I think that's one thing that Bruins fans kind

13:14 Speaker 2: of get hung up on is Charlie doesn't, you know,

13:17 Speaker 2: generate offense on the score sheet, but he's he's a

13:21 Speaker 2: game changer in so many other ways. And I mean

13:24 Speaker 2: Chara never lit up the score sheet either, but I mean,

13:27 Speaker 2: the dude hit everybody in sight. He never wanted to

13:30 Speaker 2: go into the corners with him. And you know, I

13:32 Speaker 2: mean they literally had to change how.

13:36 Speaker 6: The boards are structured because he almost cappecated someone.

13:40 Speaker 2: He almost killed a guy, which was the best thing

13:43 Speaker 2: ever got. That was the best.

13:47 Speaker 6: We can laugh about it now, but it's just like

13:51 Speaker 6: it was just so again.

13:54 Speaker 2: I laughed at the time too.

13:56 Speaker 4: Yeah, I did laugh at the time because I thought, okay, listen,

14:01 Speaker 4: I mean again, if Zadano Chard is not a dirty player,

14:06 Speaker 4: never has been, has never been part of his game.

14:08 Speaker 4: But what was ridiculously funny was their fan base calling

14:13 Speaker 4: freaking nine to one one to have Parah arrested for

14:17 Speaker 4: assault and battery. For Christ's sake.

14:21 Speaker 2: That's perfect. But when you when you look.

14:23 Speaker 4: Back at that, you know, because I know, you know,

14:25 Speaker 4: we're going to use the twenty eleven defensive pairings for

14:32 Speaker 4: the Boston Bruins as kind of an example of how

14:35 Speaker 4: you want to maybe focus on building your your core

14:42 Speaker 4: defenseman moving forward. Those guys were fucking wrecking balls.

14:47 Speaker 6: Man.

14:47 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean when you when you look at

14:50 Speaker 4: the list of names and and and this is why

14:54 Speaker 4: I used the word like you want to be afraid

14:57 Speaker 4: to go in the corner. You wanted the opposing team

15:01 Speaker 4: to think about which one of these guys is gonna

15:04 Speaker 4: knock my block off before I even get to the

15:08 Speaker 4: goalie to take a shot.

15:11 Speaker 2: Yep. I mean even Seidenberg, who wasn't the meanest guy.

15:15 Speaker 2: That guy was big and he was tough, and.

15:18 Speaker 4: When he hits someone, he hits someone like Ronnie Boychuk

15:24 Speaker 4: was the same. I mean, that guy was like, you know,

15:29 Speaker 4: but I missed that type of play. And I know

15:34 Speaker 4: it's hard to do in today's NHL simply because of

15:41 Speaker 4: you know, the rules, and it just seems that there's

15:44 Speaker 4: an aversion on the part of the league to allow

15:50 Speaker 4: defencemen to stand their ground. Yeah, and you know, and

15:55 Speaker 4: I'm saying play play the game in an honorable way,

15:58 Speaker 4: but there seems to be in instances of, you know,

16:01 Speaker 4: if a defenseman is jockeying for position or trying to

16:05 Speaker 4: keep a guy out of the way, that the officials

16:08 Speaker 4: are looking for something to call either you know, some

16:13 Speaker 4: ticky tack stick infraction or you know, an interference call

16:19 Speaker 4: of some scored So I do think that today's defenceman

16:24 Speaker 4: has a harder job than they did in the past.

16:29 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, they I think the defenseman in the

16:33 Speaker 2: past used to get away with more grabbing, a little

16:35 Speaker 2: bit more innerh yeah.

16:38 Speaker 9: Yeah.

16:38 Speaker 6: It was clutching, grabbing, drag.

16:41 Speaker 4: I mean, you want to talk about it, you want

16:43 Speaker 4: to talk about a slash, you go back and watch.

16:46 Speaker 4: You go back and watch some of those Bruins games

16:49 Speaker 4: in the seventies and they were like trying to shop

16:54 Speaker 4: each other's wrists off. And they still weren't calling slashing

16:57 Speaker 4: penalties today. I wouldn't, but the stick gets to a

17:01 Speaker 4: slashing call, so.

17:04 Speaker 6: I don't even have to go he doesn't even have

17:06 Speaker 6: to go that far back. I mean, twenty years ago,

17:12 Speaker 6: Scott Stevens was was out there as a defenceman, practically

17:17 Speaker 6: murdering people out there, you know, on the ice, because

17:21 Speaker 6: that's just kind of how the game was, right, But

17:24 Speaker 6: I will go out there for that express purpose, right,

17:27 Speaker 6: he didn't go out there.

17:28 Speaker 4: Stevens did it cleanly. I'd say ninety percent of the time.

17:32 Speaker 4: I'd say ninety percent of the time he did it cleanly.

17:37 Speaker 4: And I mean, if anybody ever wanted to learn how

17:41 Speaker 4: to hit as a defenseman, go back and watch.

17:45 Speaker 6: Yeah, some film on Scott Stevens. Yep.

17:49 Speaker 2: I always uh, I always went back to like casparaitis, Yeah, Jack,

17:54 Speaker 2: bring back the hipcheck man, That's what I want.

17:57 Speaker 6: Yeah, but we digress here. Yeah.

18:01 Speaker 2: So I think your top defenseman, they've they've they've got

18:05 Speaker 2: to be your leaders. I mean, they are the leaders

18:07 Speaker 2: of that defensive corps. I think they they should be veterans.

18:12 Speaker 2: At least one of them needs to be a veteran

18:15 Speaker 2: in this case. I mean, you've got LORI. You know,

18:17 Speaker 2: if if there's a rookie or a rookie ish type

18:20 Speaker 2: player that has the the ability and you're willing to

18:25 Speaker 2: kind of put up with some turnovers or giveaways or

18:28 Speaker 2: give up some offensive chances, play them up there. I

18:33 Speaker 2: think that dynamic of kind of veteran rookie ish kind

18:37 Speaker 2: of mentor works. I think kind of Chari Mac Yeah, I.

18:43 Speaker 6: Did, did Carlow for the longest time.

18:48 Speaker 2: Yeah, when the Bruins had Dougie Hamilton was he playing.

18:53 Speaker 2: I forget who he played with, but I know he

18:56 Speaker 2: didn't last too too long. But I feel like there

18:58 Speaker 2: might have been something there too.

19:01 Speaker 6: I'd have to go back and look, I don't remember.

19:03 Speaker 2: I don't remember.

19:03 Speaker 4: I was not a fan of his game, to be

19:06 Speaker 4: perfectly honest with you, So.

19:08 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't. I don't know if a lot of

19:10 Speaker 2: people were or were sad when he got traded. So

19:15 Speaker 2: but I mean they are your you know either you know,

19:18 Speaker 2: one's probably a top p K guy, one's a top

19:20 Speaker 2: power play guy. So they're they're going to be your minute,

19:24 Speaker 2: your minute munchers. I mean, some guys could probably take

19:28 Speaker 2: upper twenties, low thirty minutes in the playoffs. I mean,

19:32 Speaker 2: let's charm those guys are crazy.

19:35 Speaker 6: So yeah, So no, I've got a question.

19:38 Speaker 2: Yeah.

19:38 Speaker 8: One of the things that I know I've heard you

19:41 Speaker 8: talk about before, you know, and it's not unique to you,

19:46 Speaker 8: the notion of hockey iq right and hockey iq means

19:51 Speaker 8: different things based on the position.

19:54 Speaker 6: That you play right, you know, with a.

19:56 Speaker 9: With a forward, being able to see where a play

20:00 Speaker 9: can develop and go into that empty space before everything

20:04 Speaker 9: else happens, so you could be in the right place

20:06 Speaker 9: the right time.

20:06 Speaker 8: Right.

20:07 Speaker 6: But one thing that I've heard you talk a lot

20:10 Speaker 6: about this year with Zadorov is his seemingly black of

20:18 Speaker 6: hockey IQ got better for me. I've grown hearing your

20:26 Speaker 6: qualms with him, and I want you to kind of

20:28 Speaker 6: walk us through that in a second. But hearing your

20:30 Speaker 6: qualms has really also opened my eyes to better understanding

20:37 Speaker 6: really what the requirements are for good hockey IQ when

20:43 Speaker 6: it comes to being a defenceman. So you know, like

20:47 Speaker 6: just you articulating the fact that, well, yeah, if you

20:50 Speaker 6: have someone like Mason Lori who is a little bit

20:53 Speaker 6: more of a loose cannon, he should be paired. So

20:57 Speaker 6: that means he's probably going to be in either a

20:59 Speaker 6: little bit deeper into the offensive zone or he's going

21:03 Speaker 6: to have a little bit less control over the play

21:06 Speaker 6: and the puck. So you want to be pairing him

21:08 Speaker 6: with someone who has a very, very high IQ to

21:12 Speaker 6: understand and recognize what is my partner doing in this

21:16 Speaker 6: moment and what is happening in front of me, so

21:20 Speaker 6: I can make the right decision to book it backwards

21:23 Speaker 6: as facts as possible to avoid any kind of disaster.

21:28 Speaker 6: So yep, what tell us about your qualms? And where

21:35 Speaker 6: does Zadora? Well, I would say typically play, but our

21:39 Speaker 6: top two defensement we're out for most of the season,

21:42 Speaker 6: so I can't really say that. But where can he

21:44 Speaker 6: be and what's the deal with this guy?

21:48 Speaker 4: Well, let's for the sake of this exercise. Okay, we're

21:53 Speaker 4: starting healthy. Everyone's healthy, Yeah, Knackavoy's healthy, lind half is

21:59 Speaker 4: where's be. Presumably those are your top two guys whether

22:04 Speaker 4: weather now doesn't mean you pay them up together, right,

22:07 Speaker 4: but those are your top two guys.

22:10 Speaker 2: Yep, yep. So all right, so let's I guess we've

22:15 Speaker 2: got three things to talk about, right, So let's just

22:17 Speaker 2: finish with the third pairing of your defense, because they're

22:21 Speaker 2: I mean, if in my mind they're they're kind of

22:24 Speaker 2: like your fourth line. They're the guys that aren't gonna

22:27 Speaker 2: get the high leverage situations. They're gonna probably be a

22:30 Speaker 2: little bit stronger, a little bit tougher, a little bit meaner,

22:34 Speaker 2: and and probably a little bit more shut down minded.

22:38 Speaker 2: So I think that's kind of where you look at

22:41 Speaker 2: your defenseman and and probably also they're your power They're

22:45 Speaker 2: they're your penalty kill guys too, so that's where they're

22:48 Speaker 2: gonna make up their time on ice. So Zadora off

22:53 Speaker 2: for me. When I watch him play, he is extremely

22:59 Speaker 2: lazy getting to the puck in his own zone. After

23:03 Speaker 2: the forward kind of like chips it past him or

23:07 Speaker 2: or dumps it in from the neutral zone. So there's

23:10 Speaker 2: a couple of things that he does that that really

23:13 Speaker 2: kind of pisses me off, for lack of better word.

23:19 Speaker 2: The biggest thing that he will do is if the

23:24 Speaker 2: puck is dumped in behind him, he will not skate

23:28 Speaker 2: for the puck. He will either turn and try to

23:33 Speaker 2: just be that big body that blocks the forward from

23:36 Speaker 2: coming in and expect the other the the the other

23:40 Speaker 2: side defenseman to come in and get it, which if

23:43 Speaker 2: you go back and watch, they never really did because

23:46 Speaker 2: there was no communication and no one knew what was happening.

23:51 Speaker 2: And he just took so many fucking penalties. So he

23:57 Speaker 2: was like, what the most penalized player in the well

24:00 Speaker 2: or something.

24:01 Speaker 6: So yeah, at multiple points in the season, right, he.

24:05 Speaker 2: Was, and and he I don't know if the Bruins

24:09 Speaker 2: still play the same kind of defensive structure where basically

24:14 Speaker 2: your your two wingers guard guard the guard the defenseman

24:18 Speaker 2: at the point and kind of come down to like

24:21 Speaker 2: the top of the dot if they have to. You've

24:23 Speaker 2: got each defenceman their job. If the puck's in their corner,

24:28 Speaker 2: they're fighting for that puck and the other guy is

24:30 Speaker 2: in front of the net when the puck goes to

24:32 Speaker 2: the other side. They flip flop. So each kind of

24:35 Speaker 2: guy mans their own like quart their quadrant. Right, It's

24:38 Speaker 2: like that the other side of the trapezoid, that's where

24:41 Speaker 2: the defenseman's point is, and then the center. Their job

24:46 Speaker 2: is to be that second guy in fight for the puck,

24:48 Speaker 2: be that support for a breakout pass. That's how their

24:52 Speaker 2: defense used to be. I think they still kind of

24:55 Speaker 2: run a form of it. It's it's not better because

24:58 Speaker 2: I mean, you lost burg Around, you lost Kretchi, you

25:00 Speaker 2: lost guys that basically created that system. But Sidorov is

25:05 Speaker 2: just slow to getting to his side or reading and

25:10 Speaker 2: reacting and trying to understand if he should go to

25:13 Speaker 2: the front of the net or go in his corner.

25:15 Speaker 2: There's just so many little things that just frustrate you

25:19 Speaker 2: to the point where I don't know why the Bruins

25:23 Speaker 2: signed him in the first place, because I don't know

25:26 Speaker 2: if you can teach this guy to actually give a shit,

25:29 Speaker 2: because it doesn't look like he does well.

25:31 Speaker 4: Right, we're gonna we're gonna briefly pause there for our

25:35 Speaker 4: ad break because I'm gonna I'm gonna share a stat

25:38 Speaker 4: with you, Mo that you might not be aware of,

25:41 Speaker 4: or maybe you are aware of, where Zadorov is concerned,

25:47 Speaker 4: because I want to hear from you about where you

25:52 Speaker 4: would hear him and the hierarchy of defenseman. So then

25:57 Speaker 4: to take a quick little ad break.

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28:18 Speaker 6: Welcome back, folks and U when we yes, it was

28:25 Speaker 6: where we paused.

28:26 Speaker 4: We were talking about the breakdown of defensive pairings and

28:32 Speaker 4: most philosophy about you know, your your top paer defenseman

28:38 Speaker 4: pair two and pair three, And we were talking about

28:42 Speaker 4: Nikita's Zadorov and and well, I would agree with you

28:47 Speaker 4: on the concern related to hockey IQ. And you know,

28:52 Speaker 4: far be it for any of us to pass judgment

28:56 Speaker 4: on what we think players do or don't know. We

29:00 Speaker 4: just base our assessment on what we see on the ice.

29:04 Speaker 6: And you know, when.

29:05 Speaker 4: He first put on the Bruins jersey, it would make

29:10 Speaker 4: you wonder quite often, dude, what the hell are you thinking?

29:14 Speaker 6: Right?

29:14 Speaker 4: We asked ourselves that numerous numerous times.

29:18 Speaker 6: Now, your.

29:22 Speaker 4: Comment before we went to break was, I don't know

29:24 Speaker 4: why the Bruins signed him to begin And I would

29:28 Speaker 4: say to you, I would say to you the reason

29:31 Speaker 4: why the Bruins signed him was because they were thinking

29:36 Speaker 4: that they were building a team to go up against, specifically,

29:41 Speaker 4: in my mind, the Florida Panthers. We had been getting

29:45 Speaker 4: the crap kicked out of us by this team, and

29:49 Speaker 4: our defenceman looked relatively soft during those series. So I

29:56 Speaker 4: understand the method to the madness. I will agree with

30:00 Speaker 4: you that he was kind of a train wreck, an

30:04 Speaker 4: unmitigated train wreck to start the season. But I just

30:08 Speaker 4: pulled up the Bruins stats to finish the season, and again,

30:13 Speaker 4: this isn't the be all end all, it's the stats

30:16 Speaker 4: still means something to me. His plus minus plus twenty

30:22 Speaker 4: five the highest.

30:23 Speaker 6: On the team, I know. I don't even know.

30:29 Speaker 4: Again, it may not because I wanted to hang my

30:33 Speaker 4: hat on something positive through this disastrous freaking season.

30:36 Speaker 6: We sat through.

30:38 Speaker 4: But I thought he got better and yeah went along.

30:44 Speaker 4: I think got more comfortable in his role. I think

30:49 Speaker 4: he was embracing being somewhat of a leader after the

30:54 Speaker 4: Bruins pretty much traded all of their leaders.

30:58 Speaker 6: And their core.

31:00 Speaker 4: But I think that means something of significance to him,

31:05 Speaker 4: and I think he cares. I do truly believe, hearing

31:10 Speaker 4: him speak that he cares about that spoke fee. He

31:14 Speaker 4: cares about, you know, his his play on the ice,

31:17 Speaker 4: the play of his teammates. So I am willing to

31:21 Speaker 4: give him the benefit of the doubt with you know,

31:26 Speaker 4: a full season with a training camp that doesn't look

31:29 Speaker 4: like it's it's it's a shit show. It's from what

31:34 Speaker 4: it sounded like, it's just a shit show. And you've

31:37 Speaker 4: got new guys coming in and you're running your training camp.

31:42 Speaker 4: I don't know who the hell was running it like

31:44 Speaker 4: a gong show.

31:44 Speaker 6: So true, he's on this team.

31:49 Speaker 4: He's not going anywhere because honestly, I don't think anyone's

31:52 Speaker 4: taking that contract even if we wanted him to be gone.

31:57 Speaker 4: So where where would you have Nikita Zadorov in your

32:03 Speaker 4: scheme of pairings?

32:07 Speaker 2: That's a great question.

32:08 Speaker 6: So and who with by the way, So.

32:13 Speaker 2: All right, I don't think he's a top guy. I

32:17 Speaker 2: don't think I want to agree with you looking at it.

32:23 Speaker 2: He's a left handed shot, I think, if I remember right.

32:28 Speaker 2: So unfortunately you've got Lindholm who's also a left handed

32:32 Speaker 2: shot that I don't think you want to put two

32:35 Speaker 2: lefties out there and have one play right. And you

32:37 Speaker 2: know you can't do the boards properly.

32:40 Speaker 8: So.

32:42 Speaker 2: I think in a perfect world he would probably be

32:44 Speaker 2: a second line defenceman was someone that was a little

32:48 Speaker 2: bit more offensively minded, like a Lindholme. If one of

32:53 Speaker 2: those guys was a right handed shot. I think that

32:55 Speaker 2: combination could work, just because Lindholm is a better skater

32:59 Speaker 2: and would probably pick up the puck if if if

33:02 Speaker 2: Zidorof is doing that same thing and letting the puck

33:06 Speaker 2: go and and that sort of thing. But maybe you can.

33:11 Speaker 6: Put him with Chucky because he's not Ultimately Zadora is

33:16 Speaker 6: just ultimately not good enough to be on that first pair.

33:20 Speaker 2: I think he is, but I don't think Chucky is

33:22 Speaker 2: offensive minded enough. Yeah, and I think the pressure would

33:29 Speaker 2: get to McAvoy where the fans would just turn on him,

33:32 Speaker 2: and I don't it's fair to anybody. And LORII and

33:37 Speaker 2: McAvoy seemed to play really, really well together. I don't

33:41 Speaker 2: know what it is, but they seem to have really

33:43 Speaker 2: good chemistry. And I think Louri kind of suffered when

33:47 Speaker 2: when Mac went down and then he kind of picked

33:49 Speaker 2: it up.

33:50 Speaker 4: We'll talk about asking a kid to do too much,

33:52 Speaker 4: and I know he finished the season disastrously put it right,

34:00 Speaker 4: just disastrously. But here we also have to understand that

34:05 Speaker 4: again we were they were without lind Holme and McAvoy,

34:10 Speaker 4: and so I don't know that he would have been

34:13 Speaker 4: put in the myriad of situations that he was was

34:18 Speaker 4: with Laura was put in to finish off the season.

34:22 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, So I mean, if you think about it,

34:26 Speaker 2: I mean probably the door off in Peak would be

34:28 Speaker 2: a decent third line. I mean you've got a right

34:30 Speaker 2: hand to chat and Peak and a lefty and the

34:32 Speaker 2: door off that kind of lets the door off be

34:35 Speaker 2: a little bit more risky offensively. I think he kind

34:40 Speaker 2: of has it in him to want to probably pinch

34:43 Speaker 2: a little bit more where Peak will be that kind

34:45 Speaker 2: of that Adam McQuaid type guy. And then hopefully that

34:50 Speaker 2: allows Zadoroff not to be the guy that takes all

34:53 Speaker 2: those stupid penalties and and let Peak kind of do

34:56 Speaker 2: it so Zadoroff can can do that penalty kill and

35:00 Speaker 2: and go from there. So I think the Bruins have

35:04 Speaker 2: a pretty big void to fill in that second line

35:07 Speaker 2: defensive spot to pair with.

35:10 Speaker 6: Jumped from first to second to third.

35:13 Speaker 8: But like what, Yeah, it's because he doesn't have an

35:18 Speaker 8: ideal partner. I mean, I can't remember now off the

35:21 Speaker 8: top of my head for some reason, the year of

35:24 Speaker 8: the Perfect season, who was Lynn Holmes's partner because he

35:29 Speaker 8: had a nominal.

35:32 Speaker 6: Year that year? But who was he paired with? Was

35:35 Speaker 6: he paired with Carlo? I didn't think so, but.

35:39 Speaker 2: He was paired with I don't remember anymore. I don't remember. No.

35:44 Speaker 4: Yeah, But they then then maca mine because like we're

35:49 Speaker 4: joined at the hip, which always drove me crazy, drove

35:53 Speaker 4: me absolutely.

35:55 Speaker 6: Who was with lynn Holm? Freaking bonkers? Listeners yell at

36:00 Speaker 6: us in the comments the top of our head number

36:05 Speaker 6: with him? But I don't know so about who should

36:12 Speaker 6: be doing what?

36:16 Speaker 2: So here's here's the thing. I mean, you guys, and we've.

36:18 Speaker 6: Talked about you guys, which I you know. I love

36:21 Speaker 6: your idea of pairing him with Peek. We're poured together.

36:29 Speaker 2: Who put so? Who plays with Linda?

36:31 Speaker 8: Right?

36:31 Speaker 6: Is it? Is it?

36:33 Speaker 2: Yoki Haru? Does he come back? Do the Bruins sign

36:37 Speaker 2: Dante Fabreau who Chinzawa was was talking about. I mean,

36:44 Speaker 2: is there someone in Providence that can step up? Who

36:48 Speaker 2: was who was the guy who was the rookie that

36:50 Speaker 2: played the last game? Is that Jackson?

36:57 Speaker 6: Mm?

36:57 Speaker 2: Hmmm, Edwards, Yeah, I think so right. I mean I

37:02 Speaker 2: liked what I saw from him. I don't think he's ready,

37:04 Speaker 2: but I think he's a guy that, in the coming years,

37:07 Speaker 2: could you know, be that seventh defenceman. But man, it's

37:14 Speaker 2: it's one of those things where you you wanted Carlo

37:16 Speaker 2: to work out, but it just didn't. I think a

37:22 Speaker 2: guy that they're gonna need is someone that is probably

37:24 Speaker 2: a little bit more physical, because I don't think Lindholm.

37:28 Speaker 2: I mean that's if his knee holds up. I mean,

37:31 Speaker 2: Lindholm is not the toughest guy and can probably be

37:34 Speaker 2: pushed around, which is why him and McAvoy played well

37:39 Speaker 2: because no one messed with mac. So I hate the

37:43 Speaker 2: idea of bringing Yokiharu back just because I don't see

37:47 Speaker 2: him as that kind of physical defenseman that could play

37:51 Speaker 2: with with Lindholm. So it's I don't really know what's

37:55 Speaker 2: out there or what's available, But is.

37:57 Speaker 4: There anyone down in Probably I know these guys don't

38:00 Speaker 4: grow on trees, but is there anyone down in Providence.

38:07 Speaker 6: Or what about some of our our alternates, Like while

38:10 Speaker 6: the Spoon.

38:13 Speaker 2: Spoon is is, I think Spoon's probably priced himself out

38:17 Speaker 2: of Boston. But I would say he's he's really like

38:21 Speaker 2: your sixth seventh defenceman, Like if Pete goes down, that's

38:24 Speaker 2: who I want in. I didn't see a whole lot

38:27 Speaker 2: out of Spoon that that made me go, holy shit,

38:30 Speaker 2: I need this guy back. You know. Let's just I

38:35 Speaker 2: mean they've got I mean, there's not really a lot

38:39 Speaker 2: down there. I mean we've got Ian Mitchell. I didn't

38:41 Speaker 2: think that.

38:42 Speaker 6: Maybe, you know, I thought you might know something I didn't.

38:45 Speaker 4: I mean again, yeah, you know, franchise altering defenceman don't

38:52 Speaker 4: grow on trees, is what I.

38:56 Speaker 2: I don't think they're gonna unless they get like the

38:58 Speaker 2: first or second overall pick. Don't think they're going to

39:00 Speaker 2: draft a defenseman that's gonna slot up and play right away.

39:06 Speaker 2: I don't know who's available in the free agency market,

39:09 Speaker 2: but maybe they can swing a trade. Maybe they can,

39:12 Speaker 2: you know, I mean, Corposalo probably will look to get traded.

39:17 Speaker 2: Maybe you pair him with Zaka and look for a

39:20 Speaker 2: defenseman to fill that role, or or who knows.

39:23 Speaker 6: But I think more games, Yeah, I think.

39:27 Speaker 2: You're gonna need you need, You're gonna need to find

39:30 Speaker 2: someone that can play with lind Holme that I I

39:34 Speaker 2: would like them to be someone that can. Man, you'd

39:40 Speaker 2: almost want like a Carlos the door Off hybrid.

39:45 Speaker 6: You're gonna want like some more like the muscles, right,

39:49 Speaker 6: but someone that can because I'm a little bit more

39:52 Speaker 6: of a finesse player.

39:54 Speaker 2: But I think the door off is is a little

39:56 Speaker 2: too slow for lind Home. Yeah you even though I

40:00 Speaker 2: think doesn't zidorof have like the fastest burst of any

40:03 Speaker 2: Bruins player this year?

40:05 Speaker 6: So just does his legs are ten feet long? I mean,

40:08 Speaker 6: the stride is just ridiculous, Give me a break.

40:12 Speaker 2: I know.

40:13 Speaker 6: So it sounds like and we know because you mentioned

40:17 Speaker 6: in the last episode that you would, of course rather

40:20 Speaker 6: see Mason Laura be a forward. Yep. I can't imagine

40:28 Speaker 6: that that's ever going to happen.

40:31 Speaker 4: No, no, But here's what I do want them to make

40:36 Speaker 4: a determination on about this kid. Yeah, he seems to

40:41 Speaker 4: be more my view watching the games, he seems to

40:46 Speaker 4: have more interest in being an offensive minded defenceman than

40:54 Speaker 4: balancing his game with some defense. Right, So I know,

40:59 Speaker 4: you know the means are taken off, and you know

41:01 Speaker 4: they've they've taken the pony and they've turned him into

41:05 Speaker 4: or trying to turn him into, you know, a show horse,

41:08 Speaker 4: but there there needs need to strike a balance here,

41:12 Speaker 4: or he needs to strike a balance as a player,

41:15 Speaker 4: because you know, if if you're going to be a

41:20 Speaker 4: top pairing fenceman, you've got to be able to play defense,

41:27 Speaker 4: and you've got to be able to make smart decisions

41:31 Speaker 4: with with the puck. And I know we've touched on

41:34 Speaker 4: you know, Zadorov's hockey IQ, and I think the same

41:38 Speaker 4: could be said sometimes of Mason Mouri with decisions that

41:43 Speaker 4: he's made with the puck. So he has a little

41:46 Speaker 4: bit more of an excuse he's I know, he's a

41:49 Speaker 4: lot younger, younger, Yeah, he's definitely younger. But this is why, though,

41:54 Speaker 4: I think it's imperative that the Bruins get this figured

41:59 Speaker 4: out with this player. If he's part of your core

42:04 Speaker 4: defense and he's part of the future of your team, yeah,

42:08 Speaker 4: then this aspect of his game has got to be

42:12 Speaker 4: focused on and worked on.

42:14 Speaker 9: Yeah.

42:15 Speaker 2: Yeah, right. And I mean looking at the list of

42:20 Speaker 2: defensive free agents, there's not really a whole lot of

42:23 Speaker 2: people out there that make you make you happy. Yeah,

42:28 Speaker 2: I mean, do you go after a guy like Brent

42:30 Speaker 2: Burns who's forty one?

42:32 Speaker 5: No enough, And now I walked about one of the

42:38 Speaker 5: younger teams, and I don't want I don't want to

42:40 Speaker 5: recycle coaches, and I don't want to recycle players who

42:43 Speaker 5: should be, like you know, filing their retirement papers.

42:47 Speaker 6: I just I'm good with that.

42:50 Speaker 8: Yeah, well, that's a great idea for one of our

42:53 Speaker 8: episodes that we'll have in the month of June leading

42:58 Speaker 8: up to the free agency.

43:01 Speaker 6: But let's wrap this up. We're gonna have, of course,

43:05 Speaker 6: more conversation in the coming weeks with Professor Mo, So

43:09 Speaker 6: make sure, if you haven't already, to like and subscribe

43:13 Speaker 6: and follow us, rate and review on all the podcast platforms.

43:17 Speaker 6: But make sure you also sign up for our sub

43:19 Speaker 6: sets so you can get all of those unique takes

43:24 Speaker 6: by Professor Mo right in good good articles, Yes, good

43:28 Speaker 6: arts ready. So I have no doubt it will eventually

43:33 Speaker 6: turn LORI into a forward. So I know if anyone

43:36 Speaker 6: can do it, it's gonna be Mo. But any final

43:41 Speaker 6: thoughts about your your philosophy around defense.

43:50 Speaker 2: I think I think we're in better shape on defense

43:53 Speaker 2: than with forwards. I think, depending who the coach is

43:58 Speaker 2: and what their philosophy will be is going to kind

44:02 Speaker 2: of help determine kind of whose holes get filled. That's

44:06 Speaker 2: why you might see a Yoki Haru come back if

44:08 Speaker 2: they want a guy who can kind of skate and

44:10 Speaker 2: do a little bit more offense. But the biggest thing

44:13 Speaker 2: is going to be how is Lindholm's knee, What is

44:17 Speaker 2: the health of it? Can it hold up? If not?

44:20 Speaker 2: I think the Bruins are a little bit more screwed,

44:24 Speaker 2: but but I like what they have, and man, it's

44:30 Speaker 2: it's kind of nice to have at least something you

44:32 Speaker 2: don't necessarily have to worry about. You know, your your

44:36 Speaker 2: top goalie, your top two defensemen, and your top line

44:39 Speaker 2: are are probably your most important things. And the Bruins

44:43 Speaker 2: seem to have that under control. We'll call it so.

44:48 Speaker 2: I mean, I know people, so we'll just throw in.

44:51 Speaker 6: They all have to play better though than they did

44:53 Speaker 6: this past season.

44:54 Speaker 2: Yes, well, perform better. I think they will so, But

45:00 Speaker 2: but I think I think we're gonna be okay, So

45:04 Speaker 2: we'll see that again. I did think Max Jones was

45:07 Speaker 2: gonna be really great last year, and that didn't happen.

45:10 Speaker 6: I think I think we all did. So You're not alone.

45:14 Speaker 6: We all we all have those moments.

45:17 Speaker 8: Yep, but stay tuned for another episode UH coming up

45:22 Speaker 8: soon with us and as always Gobs Goby's.

45:27 Speaker 6: Thanks for tuning in.

45:29 Speaker 2: Thanks guys.

45:55 Speaker 6: Yeah, I can't stand the leaves