Whatever Happened to the Bruins' Penalty Kill? | Ep. 91

0:00 Speaker 1: Welcome.

0:00 Speaker 2: Can you start a podcast with me? Please? I need something to do.

0:13 Speaker 3: A sax, sit it out in trouble bolcon to say this past.

0:19 Speaker 2: Us today.

0:20 Speaker 4: Here's a chance pop fa right down the goalie scars.

0:22 Speaker 2: Oh my wan a move by the rookie. Two on one plaster not movie came with Marshaw getting to its own oil dances in badcasta hold right way corner, faster Chester.

0:40 Speaker 1: What's that for?

0:41 Speaker 2: Most?

0:51 Speaker 1: Welcome in everyone to another episode of Bruin's Tape to Tape.

0:56 Speaker 5: I'm your host this evening.

0:57 Speaker 1: Caroline, and it is May twenty eighth, and I am here with my fabulous co host Maria from Watertown.

1:06 Speaker 5: How's it going, Maria?

1:07 Speaker 3: Oh, it's going great, going great. I'm glad we are still having an opportunity to talk a little hockey.

1:15 Speaker 1: Indeed, indeed, there's always plenty to talk about when it comes to hockey. And we are closing out the month of May and talking to Professor Mo one more time about Special Team.

1:31 Speaker 5: So Hello, Mo, how's it going?

1:34 Speaker 2: Hello, it's good, thanks for having me back. I brought pen and paper this time to write down all your questions.

1:41 Speaker 5: So yeah, yeah, we apologize for that.

1:44 Speaker 6: We threw.

1:45 Speaker 5: We threw a little too much at you all at once.

1:49 Speaker 2: You guys were excited. It's all worth it.

1:52 Speaker 5: We gotta we gotta, we gotta get it out a while with thinking of it more.

1:55 Speaker 2: You know, that's the problem. I'm thinking about it while you guys are talking, and then I talk.

2:01 Speaker 1: So besides being our favorite sport, hockey isn't just something that is entertaining to watch and seeing guys out there with knives on their feet. There is a lot that's happening and it can take sometimes a lifetime of fandom to capture and understand everything that happens out on the ice. And so we appreciate you being here and giving us that perspective because there are so many new hockey fans following along this year after a really successful NHL season and a four Nations and we're about to go into another season which is going to be interrupted by an Olympics.

2:45 Speaker 5: So you know, we're doing the hockey gods work.

2:51 Speaker 2: Yes, we are, at least we are.

2:53 Speaker 5: The time people.

2:54 Speaker 3: We are working all the time, and we're not asking for any salary increases exactly exactly.

3:01 Speaker 1: We want to make sure everyone is prepared come October for the next season for the Boston Bruins, or just to get in the know now as we are in the thick of NHL playoffs.

3:16 Speaker 5: So we're here today to talk about the other half of special.

3:22 Speaker 1: Teams, which is the penalty kill. Now, for longtime Bruins fans, you know, the penalty kill has been something of a specialty of this team. It's something that they have been known for for many, many years, particularly.

3:43 Speaker 5: Owing to the fact that they've had a very.

3:47 Speaker 1: Robust defensive structure in place for god i well over a decade, if not longer. It's really been as we discussed a couple of episodes back when we talked about defense and you know, the philosophy of building ideal defensive pairs. You know, it's something that is just truly embedded in what it needs to be a Boston Bruin and even in the Providence the Providence Bruins. So the fact that we probably witnessed the worst penalty kill that we have ever seen this franchise have, we want to kind of talk about how and why, and you know, also eventually we will get to the point the question of how can we get it back.

4:43 Speaker 5: So Moe, we're putting you on.

4:45 Speaker 1: The spot, and I want to remind all of our listeners that we have some of Moe's philosophies on our substacks, so you can read a little bit more in depth as the summer goes on. Because we're always thinking about hockey, so well tell us a little bit first and foremost, let's start at the beginning.

5:09 Speaker 5: Penalty kill.

5:10 Speaker 1: Obviously the number one priority prevent the team the other team it's poring a power play goal. But how how does a team successfully execute a penalty kill?

5:28 Speaker 2: Yep? So when I was always growing up that the penalty kill was was if I had a specialty, this was it. And I never really went on to play anything special, but I mean I played double and triple A hockey, so you know, we were traveling all around playing the best players. So when I was playing, my philosophy out there that we were always taught and what we always watched was in order to stop the power play, keep the puck to the outside, if let them pass, let them pass for two minutes. They're not going to score if they don't shoot, and they're not gonna shoot if they don't get the puck in a prime scoring area.

6:06 Speaker 2: So what you try to see a lot of teams do is you hope the other team plays that kind of umbrella perimeter style, And what you do is you play, you know the box structure right, four guys, and what you kind of do is based off of who's got the puck and what the other team is doing. You know, you'll have if the pucks on this side, the forward will kind of scoot over and kind of cheat, kind of play a little bit higher where you might get like a one one two. So really you're trying to keep the puck to the outside.

6:41 Speaker 2: So you do that with body position, but then you also do that with stick position. And I think that's why Marshan, Bersharon, even Coyle and Frederick to a point we're so good is because they were able to put the puck inside the passing lakes. So I mean, your stick can either be only on your left or right side right, and what you're trying to do is keep the puck going to the outside. So you always want to keep kind of keep your stick in the middle and kind of create almost with your up with the guy next to you, almost like a like a like an embargo of sticks where you can intercept a pass if it goes cross or in the middle.

7:20 Speaker 2: And then what you also need is if the puck is juggled or someone loses it, you need to have the instinct and the acceleration to get on that player and force him to go somewhere or give it up. And I think the Bruins have kind of lost a little bit of their They don't seem to be as quick on on the penalty kill anymore. I mean we've lost Marshan Coyle seemed to slow down at the end of there. I mean, really, some of the only guys we've got is Beacher's who's quick and kind of get on guys. And then really you got to look at the goal as your fifth guide.

8:01 Speaker 2: You'll see a lot I was going to go there, and so you'll see a lot of times where the announcers are like, you know, we we need we need a we need a whistle, right because it will just be an onslaught and it's the goalie responsibility to stop the game, slow it down, let everybody regroup, let people change. And I think we saw early on why the power by the penalty feel suffered was Swayman was leaky, you know, I mean he missed all of training camp, he missed the regular season. It took him a good six months probably to get into a rhythm.

8:35 Speaker 2: And I mean Corpuslo did his best, but I mean he's he's a backup goalie for a reason. So if I don't know how many you know soft power play goals against the Bruins gave up because it swayman, but you have to think that early on that accounted for it, and it's just kind of snowballs from there.

8:56 Speaker 1: So when you talk about the Bruins slow going down, are you talking about so one of the things that we talked about as being a necessity for power play is obviously having players constantly moving their feet right, feet moving is important. Now it's a little bit different when you were on the penalty kill. Obviously you're not moving your feet quite as much. So are you talking about feet movement or are you talking about maybe something different.

9:29 Speaker 2: I would say quickness. Right, So, on the penalty kill, you you stand around or you play yours. You kind of feel like a zone coverage right like you're you're you're moving around a little bit, but you're not supposed to go from like the right side to the left side down right to the bottom right, so you you keep your kind of two on one little area and that's your responsibility. Unless you know the defensemen cut down, then obviously you're going to collapse the box and those things. But I think in terms of speed on the penalty kill is you have to be able to close shorter gaps in a faster amount of time.

10:06 Speaker 2: And you can have, you know, marathon speed like zadorof who can skate from goal line to goal line because his legs are long, but you can't get the acceleration if a guy is maybe five feet away from you and jungles the puck and now you can go on him in an instant. You know, it's it's a game of seconds and game of inches, and if you're late, it's the puck's already gone.

10:32 Speaker 1: More more about like reflexes and power explosion.

10:37 Speaker 2: And you saw that in Marshand in his prime, I mean that guy would outwork everybody and beat people to the puck. And you've also got to be smart, I mean bergeron again. That comes into effect with your stick, your stick positioning, your body positioning too, And I think maybe that's why the brew and suffered is Carlow was never good at boxing the guy forward out in front of the net, so they would swallow up rebounds or screen. They wouldn't push them out of the way or tie up their sticks. I mean, I can remember where you know, they would try to just like put the blade on the other guy's stick and they would just you know, outwork whoever was there, and it's an easy goal.

11:19 Speaker 2: So there's there's little things like that. But I think the biggest thing that the Bruins are kind of lacking. It's kind of that like initial burst of speed, quickness, and then maybe that defensive zone coverage where they like Loria's not a physical guy. Carlo never was. The door off was pretty bad at it early on. I don't know if he improved, but he just when he came over, he wasn't great. I mean, McAvoy Lindholm aren't really penalty killed guys. I think McAvoy is a little bit more. But again, the guys that do with the penalty kill are slow, you know, so.

11:58 Speaker 7: It's just such assimness to it, you know, And I've heard, yeah, I've heard you know, experts talk about you know what, you know, how aggressive this power penalty kill unit is how aggressive the penalty kill unit is. So help us define, you know, and educate me and others on what your view of an aggressive power play is, because in my view, the Bruins seem to be once again, as with the power play, a bit stationary with their penalty kill as well.

12:34 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't know exactly like whose team would be a good example, but an aggressive penalty player. I think Marshand a couple of years ago would have been someone that would have been a slightly more aggressive penalty killer. So again, it's a lot of times on the power play you'll see guys standing with the puk like on the boards waiting for a plate to de develop. What you tend to do on those aggressive penalty kills is you have the guy who's closest to him, the forward, if it's up a little bit higher than the dots, he'll go at him, but in a way to either direct him towards the defender, and then the other forward will kind of cheat that way to intercept or make that defender play you know, quicker, or you'll see them go the opposite way and push them down where the other defender down low will push up.

13:29 Speaker 2: So everybody kind of works together because get hockey is also a sport of angles. Your job is to angle that player where you want them to go, and you do that by you know, it's kind of like you match your shoulder against theirs or opposite, and that's how you're able to tell where they are in relation to you. And if you want them to go one way, you skate the other way and you push them and you try to force them that way. And that's why I think Marshan and Bergeron were so good together, as they knew instinctively where each player was going to go and just reacting to it.

14:01 Speaker 2: So I think it's it's things like that, and maybe the Bruins just didn't have any chemistry that that very well could be. So like Carlo and Sidoroff didn't really play all that much together, so they didn't know who who was supposed to take who or the popkin. I mean, those those mooments happened in seconds and it's it's over and if you're just kind of standing there, you're screwed.

14:23 Speaker 3: And I you raise a good point about about chemistry, you know, because you know, you mentioned players that had, you know, played with each other for basically what seems like an eternity, right. You know, you developed that bing and bong and that you know ying and yang, and you can you know, anticipate where the other player is going.

14:47 Speaker 5: And so.

14:49 Speaker 3: You could see that there were miscommunications or assumptions that you know, well, you're going to get it. No, I thought you're you We're going to get it. And so, you know, I want to go back to the conversation that we had previously about philosophy with respect to the power play, and I would think that you would want to have a philosophy and a plan and a strategy. So once again, are we talking about personnel coaching or a combination of both.

15:30 Speaker 1: Yeah.

15:30 Speaker 2: I think for me when it comes to the penalty kill is you just kind of react to what the other tea's power play is doing. And so if I was going to, you know, coach a penalty kill, I would coach them in probably like all of the different philosophies. So you have, you know, the small box, you have the larger box. You have the diamond, which is like the one two one, or you can do a one three depending who you're playing, like against Florida's got three forwards almost below the goal line. You might want to do like a one to three and rotate and play that way.

16:07 Speaker 2: If the other team is everybody's outside in an umbrella, well then you can do a big box or a small box and and rotate. So I don't think you want to get stuck playing in one specific type of I guess structures because the other team can can rotate and exploit it and you're done. So I think a good coach would teach the players what the responsibilities are in those structures, but more importantly, when to play, what structure.

16:38 Speaker 1: Went, and so I can you talk a little bit more about about that specifically, what who who's out there? Is it two forwards to defense then? And then what are their responsibilities out there?

16:52 Speaker 5: Yeap?

16:52 Speaker 2: So typically two forwards, two defenseman. I'm trying to think. I would be very hard pressed to say there's ever a time you would do three forwards and one defenseman, but I would say I would say you could probably do some. I don't know if anybody you've got.

17:12 Speaker 3: You've got you know a forward who is you know, extremely defensively responsible, like I would consider for all of Zaka's other issues, I consider him to be a very defensively responsible.

17:27 Speaker 2: Forward correct, yep, yep. So typically you're going to do two forwards two d. Most teams will do the box. So the two forwards, their responsibility is going to be depending. They're going to be the guys based like above the dot on either side. So if you draw, you have the red line, you know, one way draw another line between the nets. So picture you've got four quadrants. Each player kind of mans both each one of those quadrants in the offensive zone depend where the other team and their players are.

18:04 Speaker 2: That depends. That will force you guys either to be you know, spread out wider or a little bit more condensed. So you've got the two forwards who are kind of above the dot and either to the left and right of that center line. You never want both players on the same side unless the other team has all the players on that side, because you're basically just let someone be wide open. And again you're the other team's trying to create two on one, so you've just you know, given them a two on zero. Then you've got your two defencemen below the dot.

18:37 Speaker 2: And then it depends which corner your puck is going to be in. So if the puck is in you know the side of the ice of the right defenseman they're going to go, and their job is to either contain with their body and their stick to not let the puck go to the middle of the ice. And then the other defenseman their job's the front of the net, doing their best to push the guys out of the way, ty to stick up, do whatever they can to force them to not screen the goalie, not get their stick either on the ice or in the air and get a tip.

19:06 Speaker 2: So what you kind of see is then once the puck rotates to the other side, the other defenseman will have to go over there and defend. So it's it's everybody kind of stays in their area, but they'll rotate depending where the puck's at, and then they'll either get wider or more narrow. If if there's a guy in the bumper, you might see the other defenseman cheat with you know, where the puck's on the other side, they might cheat. And and the biggest thing is again is your stick position. You know, so your body, your angles, but also your stick will force the other team to kind of pass it to where you want.

19:43 Speaker 2: So again that's why you're trying to keep them to the outside, not let them go you know, to the middle, or or like from the back of the net to the front of the net, because it's just that's that's how the other team scores.

19:55 Speaker 3: So once a better, oh, go ahead, go ahead from too many in Since is this season when we're watching the penalty kill seeming like guys are guys bruins running around or being turned around that they're caught out of position. So in your view, is that potentially a result of the effectiveness of the other team's power play unit. Is it a result of they, as we said, a lack of intuitiveness or chemistry with the personnel that are on the ice, or is a combination of both, where you know, somebody says, you know, Jesus, you know, I got to do a little bit more than what I'm supposed to be doing here to prevent this puck from getting in the net, or I don't know, it just seemed there was a lot of disjointedness for you know, for lack of a better word, this season.

21:00 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'd have to go back and look, but I don't distinctly remember there being a lot of just communication on the ice, right, Like I can't hear guys yelling and saying, you know, I've got him, or watched the guy in front, or you know, however they want to communicate. But you know, we would like point and yell like there's you know, you got him, you know, And I think you kind of lose that with persee Ron And now if Marshan doesn't come back, you've kind of lost that veteran just style of play.

21:33 Speaker 2: And they're just able to do more things at the same time because the game just moves for them and maybe just our pedally kill players weren't that good and they just got beat. And you know, I mean you're going up against the other team's best players, you're going to get beat sometimes well badly.

21:52 Speaker 3: On winning face offs this season, and I think that's critical. It is when you're killing a penalty, know to be able to get that first touch on the puck, win that draw, and then execute whatever you are going to execute.

22:10 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, especially I mean in the playoffs, I think didn't when the Bruins always played Carolina, it would always go up against stall on the penalty kill against face offs, and you always win. Yeah, right, Like.

22:24 Speaker 3: Listen Patrice bergeron is Mike Saine but stall would destroy him in the face.

22:32 Speaker 1: Yeah, there were very few players who were better at the face off than Patrica.

22:40 Speaker 5: I think that was after Brendan Moore would bitch about cheating on the face off, right right, right, right right, cheating. So is there.

22:51 Speaker 1: When it comes to, you know, strategy for you know, the basically the ultimate goal of the penalty kill besides sides preventing the scoring of a goal, is is the strategy of you know, freezing the puck via the goalie or is it just a constant attempt at clearing what's the what's is there a better strategy that you know, coaches may choose to use, Like is it just hope for the best and try all the things that you have in your toolox, Like what are they stopping goals? What are they actually trying to accomplish out there?

23:40 Speaker 2: Actively? Yeah, I would say, you know, it's going to depend upon the situation. So goal number one is get the hell out of your own just you've got it, get it out. Yeah, Exactly. If the puck is against the boards, your job is to tie up that other man and basically just muck the puck and keep the puck against the boards and draw that clock and just bleed it. Then if the other team has all the pressure on the power play, your goalie's job is to freeze it, get different personnel out there, low the game down, especially if you're on the road, kind of get the crowd out of it, and then hopefully you can win the face off and get it down or I mean we've seen marsh And do this.

24:28 Speaker 2: You know, if if you've got the puck, just keep it and throw it back into your zone and and just you know, kill that time, kill that clock, because you know and and i mean obviously last is is you can do it. Get yourself a shorty. But you know you're that's not that shouldn't be the first thing on your mind because you're gonna get the puck, you're gonna blow the zone and the other team's gonna get it. Now it's five and your screws. So yeah, biggest thing is get in front of shots, don't let the don't let the shots get through.

24:57 Speaker 2: That's why mor Burt was so good. And then just get it the hell out of there, like that's that's all you're taught. You got it gone?

25:05 Speaker 6: Is it?

25:05 Speaker 1: So?

25:06 Speaker 5: How is how is it that Marsham was so successful at the sport handed goals.

25:11 Speaker 2: What was it about you power? Yeah, and he just had that mentality that he would just go to the net and he would make offense.

25:23 Speaker 3: But I also think he's good at anticipating what the other player or where the other player would be going with it and just snag right right. Well, let me ask you this, and I neglected to ask this during our segment on the power play units, but is it more critical, crucial, beneficial to have a goaltender who is confident and capable of handling the puck in their own end when it comes to the power play and door the penalty kill.

26:03 Speaker 1: By not picking Lina's.

26:08 Speaker 2: Alnas has always been one of those goalies that love to play in the puck.

26:12 Speaker 5: He's a handler.

26:14 Speaker 2: I know. That's why I always got him in my my NHL games.

26:17 Speaker 3: And I have to say, even though they got knocked out, and I can't stand this little puke, but Jordan Bennington is pretty damn good.

26:29 Speaker 5: I said, I can't stand the little give him flowers.

26:33 Speaker 2: Yeah, if I had to pick, I'd rather have my goalie moved the puck on our power play because the other team will dump it. Then then you're able to you know, skate out if you can outside the trapezoid and that transition game, you can pass it to the other blue line. Now that there's no two line pass you got it and you go. That will suck. But if yeah, it was if your go can you know, if the other team's dumping the puck in on the power play, then your goalie is able to run out, grab it, clear it, or set it up for the defenseman.

27:07 Speaker 2: So I mean, I I don't think on the penalty kill. You don't see it very often, and you probably don't want your goalie vacating the crease play the puck. I think they're kind of just plought to stay in the net. So definitely power play. I mean, yeah, but I Slayman's not horrible at plans.

27:27 Speaker 7: Okay, yeah, it's always not terrible.

27:30 Speaker 5: But right Lenus was special.

27:34 Speaker 6: He was very I mean, he was no Marty Burner, but you know, he was about as close as you probably could get these days the way that it goes. So let's take a super quick break for a word from our sponsors, and when we come back, we will talk about uh the current personnel.

27:53 Speaker 2: In UH must we kill? We can got this all.

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30:40 Speaker 1: Okay, so we're back, and we've talked about in general the overall issues with Boston's powerplay or penalty kill excuse me, from this past season and what we wish they could do.

30:55 Speaker 5: So let's talk about the.

30:57 Speaker 1: Personnel currently occupying the these positions.

31:03 Speaker 5: Can we start with that leaky goalie.

31:06 Speaker 1: Besides the leaky goalie, because I think, yes, obviously your number one penalty killer is the goaltender right at the end.

31:13 Speaker 5: Of the day, number one. I mean, he's supposed to be right, if not your boat best. Okay, and God willing that was.

31:22 Speaker 1: That of him. We're just gonna we're gonna be all summer praying to the hockey gods please, you know, bring us back to where we were. But uh so, thinking about what we want your penalty killers to be doing.

31:41 Speaker 5: Obviously the Bruins PK is not doing that. So is it are people in the wrong roles?

31:52 Speaker 1: Are they being asked to do things that you know, maybe don't necessarily align with their skill set?

31:58 Speaker 5: Do we just have the wrong people.

32:02 Speaker 1: And that's it?

32:03 Speaker 5: What?

32:04 Speaker 2: What?

32:04 Speaker 5: Who's who's not where they should be or not good enough where they've been playing?

32:08 Speaker 1: Yeah?

32:09 Speaker 2: So I mean with the power play, typically your your power play guys are your top six forwards on the penalty kill I would say it's probably more likely that that that your penalty kill guys. At your bottom six you might have, you know, a Martian that are on the penalty kill, but you know, typically for me, you're gonna see some work lining guys like Beacher was a penalty kill guy.

32:32 Speaker 3: Past Look had been out there too before he kept getting injured, I mean, not kept getting injured, but.

32:44 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, I see Soccermorre's like your middle six players, so but he's you know, he does a lot of penalty kill time. So I I see those guys kind of more more as the Pruin's penalty kill guys going forward. I know you brought lind Holme in to to also kind of be that guy as well. I don't know. I mean, it's it's gonna depend again who the Bruins resign and who they bring you in, but it's there's there's no one out there that makes that I think makes the other team scared, right, Like you don't have a bergeron or a Marchand again, Coyle a couple of years ago was always real solid, because you know, he seemed to have you know, lost a step recently, so he's a little bit quicker, you know, a little bit more aggressive, a little bit more confident.

33:36 Speaker 2: So there's there's no one on this team that would really scare me if I had to go up against them on the penalty kill. So I think that's one of the things they need to try to do in their middle and their you know, bottom six and in that third line is find a guy that's very steady defensively. And I don't know who that is or what that looks like, but I kind of hope they they look at a guy that's that's a good two way player, but you know, maybe gives up some offense, can play defense and penalty kill.

34:05 Speaker 2: And again you've got the defense, right, I mean Carlow is always relied upon to do a penalty kill, and he's not good in front of the net.

34:15 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's always leaving that back door wide open exactly.

34:20 Speaker 2: Yeah. And McAvoy was hurt for a while and he's a steady penalty killer. I mean, Loria's not gonna do it. It's a door off can but again, he's not quick, so he can't kind of fill that gap. I mean, Peek is okay, but again, same thing. So it's just as much as I want the Bruins to bring in an offensive defenseman to help the power play, I think I'd rather have more of a two way defenseman. You know, I don't think bringing back Yokiharu is the answer, but if they can find I don't even know who there was a Fabreau.

34:54 Speaker 2: I think they were rumored ye to be interested. I don't know if he's a penalty killer, but I I would like to see them go for you know, someone that can that can kind of man the penalty till as well, because right now it just feels like we've got McAvoy and maybe Zadora.

35:12 Speaker 3: Well, I think I think Campus Lindholm would be front and center in in that role when he's you know, when he's But do you think with you know, with with a full a full season upcoming, with not so much turmoil going on, h do you think that Zadorov could translate into being a reliable on defense because you know, he's he's he's big, he's got that reach, you know, with the stick, because you know it's Daniel Chara like reach with that with that stick. And I think with you know, with some some work and coaching and maybe some kind of stability went with the upcoming season that you know, my hope would be that he could he could be like a you know, a diamond in the rough ye in that role.

36:19 Speaker 1: And we wonder if that's what the scouts saw, you know, that particular potential because I think if I'm recalling correctly from our episode about defenceman, you know, when we're categorizing the three kinds of defenseman that you have your offensive defenseman, your two way player, and your defensive defenseman, we categorize the door Off as a defensive defenceman. Yes, I mean he's not he thinks he's a two way player. He's not actually a good one, right, so you know, and so thinking about that with him.

36:57 Speaker 1: I wonder, Maria, if you've got something really there, because again, we have learned so much from Professor.

37:04 Speaker 5: Mo Or that I feel like asking me smart questions.

37:10 Speaker 1: To very you know, I haven't even thought of. But it makes you know, like you watch you watch hockey, and you're like, I know it's happening, but like you don't always necessarily think about like, oh no, like that's what's happening. That you're defenseman. You want to you know, on that that spectrum of offensive to super defensive. You want to lean more on the super defensive right, So someone like Zadorov.

37:37 Speaker 5: I mean, it seems like all of our kind of critique of his IQ to be he's not his actual IQ. Let me clarify, and I would say that to his face, let me tell you.

37:52 Speaker 2: So.

37:53 Speaker 1: But you know, I think he actually could very well lend himself to being a good resource. And I don't really remember him being like a super key piece of it last season.

38:08 Speaker 2: It didn't feel like it. And I wasn't there reports early on in the year about talking about his coach ability and maybe the coaching staff wasn't getting through to him. So maybe a different voice in the room gets.

38:20 Speaker 1: To him and he now being a leader in the room, he actually he's one that I think uh really responded to that, you know, that sizable challenge. So maybe maybe that we're talking about a Jake Debrusque type scenario where it's okay, we think, you know, everybody thinks that you are lazy.

38:46 Speaker 5: Or you don't, you know, do everything that you're supposed to do.

38:49 Speaker 1: So we're going to hand you this larger responsibility and see what you do with it. So like in the locker room, and will that could that translate on the ice?

39:00 Speaker 2: Right?

39:02 Speaker 1: So beside the defensive defenceman, which we you know, seems like it's a question mark, what kind of forwards are we talking about? You know, you did mention some of the lower line guys because again, if we recall from our forwards episode, kind of the farther from the top down, you get more defensive as you move in that direction.

39:27 Speaker 5: But what if your first line center.

39:32 Speaker 8: Is an amazing two hundred foot player whose name is Matrise Kurzier On, what would you or maybe why wouldn't you have someone like that participate in your penalty kill?

39:53 Speaker 2: Yeah, So I mean if you have a guy like that I would say, hell, yes, that's who you want, because I'm again the idea is you want to win the face off. And I mean sometimes, at least for the Bruins, the top center is someone that is not primarily a sniper. He's someone that's gonna kind of play a two way game. I think that's why the Bruins like Patra why he kind of works a little bit. So, but when you get a little bit closer to the bottom six, you're you're able to kind of carry forwards that are more specialists.

40:28 Speaker 2: Right, you had like Theilon Lucis that was, you know, the big hitter. We tried to have, you know, Veal who's the fighter, so you can kind of put and I see Beacher as kind of being that face off specialist who you know, plays a good game in the bottom six b but his primarily responsibility is win the face off, right, So he is a key penalty kill guy, win the draw. And then I mean it's just there's there's a different mindset where it comes to being a penalty killer are where your job is not to score, it's not to let the other d score, right, So those those guys aren't necessary brothers.

41:09 Speaker 5: But at least your point.

41:11 Speaker 3: That's why sometimes it's those those you know, those lower six guys, because those are the guys five on five that you're relying on to just grind down the other team. Right, their job is to just grind them down, be a pain in their ass. Just don't don't get scored on. And if if you pop in a gold here or there, okay, that's gravy, yep.

41:41 Speaker 2: Because for me, I mean I never considered Bergeron as this elite offensive forward, right, I mean he has averaged about seventies, high sixties, low seventy points a season, right, so I mean his bread and butter was his two hundred complete game, and so yeah, it's And also, you don't want your top line guys out there because the primary responsibility is not to score, but not to get scored on. So if you have pass out there, his job isn't to score, but that is his job on the team, right, So those guys will get tired for no reason.

42:20 Speaker 2: So I don't really know if I want like e or pasta or even like a life sellout there, let them rask, let them sit, and then once that penalty kill is over go, So that's why I think you don't see you know, I mean, obviously your your top line forwards there, your best forwards anyway, so they should be able to do the penalty kill. But you know, you want to rely on the guys who aren't getting the five on five ice time. Kind of let the guys get the five on five or the penalty the power play more time in that game.

42:54 Speaker 3: You know, we haven't talked much about, you know, Morgan Geeky in that role as a penalty killer. I know, you know, we've we've you know, applauded his offensive success this year, and you know, he seems to work very diligently and very hard, shift after shift after shift.

43:17 Speaker 5: What might that be a role that he could potentially.

43:22 Speaker 3: Fill, you know, to add to his game. Hopefully when the Bruins saw him.

43:30 Speaker 2: It would be nice. Yeah, I don't know how much I guess ice time he has on the penalty kill, but I mean his growth of his offensive game for me was extremely impressive because in the middle of the year I just kind of wrote him off as you know, someone I didn't care if he was on the team or not. And he had the second year, the second half of the year, and it was impressive as hell, so I don't want to sacrifice his offensive growth to try to push him towards a penalty kill kind of avenue as well, just because I think the Bruins do have guys that, you know, can kind of fill that.

44:12 Speaker 2: The guys you have, Yeah, you've got Soka, there's feature, You've got Lauco. I'm sure middle stat can can fill in, depending who comes up. I'm sure Patruck can you know, play a little bit. I'd rather have those guys out there than than my Geeki and Pasta. Yeah, I don't know if I want.

44:34 Speaker 9: Never never ever ever no, no, But it also sounds like when you're thinking about your forwards, in particular on the penalty kill, it almost sounds like you might cherry pick a little bit from different areas in a way that you wouldn't necessarily like with your defenseman in either situation.

44:59 Speaker 1: You know, power player penalty kill. I think you know they're it's pretty cut and dry what you're doing. But you know, because like you know you're talking about, yes, you beat your very effective and castle like very effective, but then you also had Brad Marshand, who was a much more elite player might higher up the wrong, but you know he was special so he he gets you know, picked out or someone else. So it's kind of an interesting kind of idea, at least in my mind, that when it comes to the penalty kill, it's less about uh, you know, what line you play on and more about what.

45:39 Speaker 2: Your skill set is.

45:41 Speaker 1: Right, You're going to see more specialist type roles like you said, yes scenario.

45:47 Speaker 2: And you'll see you know, I I would think you you'd also see guys that have good chemistry together, especially the forwards, because I mean you need that almost kind of either you know, nonverbal communication or just that those instincts, because I mean, that's really all the penalty gill is is because you're just instead of reading and reacting to what the other team is doing, you're trying to play chess and force them to do what you want. And you can really only do that if you're all on the same page.

46:17 Speaker 2: And again, I don't think the Bruins really practiced a whole lot of that stuff in you know, training camp early in the year. I mean, they just kept playing all the kids and never any vets, so they couldn't really work on those situations. And then the season comes and then everything just casts spirals, and I don't think the coaches really knew what they were doing. Yeah, you know, depending on they.

46:39 Speaker 3: Weren't prepared because they had spent so much time, energy and focus on other components that really didn't even come to any fruition or serve any sadly serve any benefit right to the team.

46:57 Speaker 2: Yeah, because didn't you used to have like Marshane and Lynn Home out there on a penalty kill. But again, lind Holme was hurt to start the year, so again they don't have that chemistry. It's harder to get it in the season as opposed to you know, beforehand, and you know, all the training camp and all the film these guys have to study. I'm sure is you know, it's it's those little things there, and you know, once the season starts, I mean, you've got games almost every other day. You're not you're not really working too much on stuff hopefully.

47:28 Speaker 2: Yeah.

47:29 Speaker 3: So, in your opinion, right, based on the players that we know are coming back, that we currently have on the roster, do you believe or feel that we at least have core components to a good penalty kill unit.

47:49 Speaker 2: Again, I think so, I think so. I do believe lind Holme is going to improve. I think he's the forward Lynd tolm Elias. Yeah, depending if we keep Soka or if he gets traded or what happens with him, I think he's also a solid option. You've got Beacher, there's Castelic, there's Lauco who I think is going to be a solid He's got good speed and he's tenacious. He's plays the boards well and he doesn't over commit too much and if he does, he's got that speed to kind of come back.

48:29 Speaker 6: Yeah.

48:29 Speaker 1: So I think if he's the only one, I think I would I would have thought that kind of had some of that, you know, that aggression aggression piece on the p que.

48:42 Speaker 5: Like Brad Marsham. We've seen him kind of trying you know, we can.

48:45 Speaker 3: Call it aggressiveness or tenacity, right, just like that will learn this.

48:51 Speaker 5: He's not afraid yet to that puck.

48:53 Speaker 2: Right right, No, for sure, So I think the Bruins are probably better off with their core of players on the penalty killed of the power play. It's just I think the system of the power play is just so much in shambles. They don't know what to do, so it almost looks a little bit worse. But I think they're penalty killed, you know. I mean, time will tell it all depends who they get as their you know, their their six or seventh defenseman, if they bring back you know whoever they do. But I kind of hope the Bruins go more of like high end, a little bit more offensive talent, kill those holes as opposed to always kind of go in and just signing six or seven bottom six forwards where.

49:40 Speaker 3: It's eggs like jaggs like in jags for anybody who doesn't know, I use that terminology, just another guy and they serve a purpose on a hockey team in limited numbers. You cannot compile a big percentage of your roster with jags and think that you are going to have any sustained success.

50:07 Speaker 2: R right. I mean those guys are your thirteen fourteenth forwards and probably the guys you bring up from Providence. So if you have nine guys on your roster, not counting anybody from Providence, then your team is just average or below average. Yeah you know it's you've got two scorers and eleven twelve bottom six guys, right, helly, you do I know.

50:34 Speaker 1: None of them a specialist in anything, right, Jack.

50:37 Speaker 10: It's funny the fact that, yeah, the fact that the Bruins have been kind of using this model for a period of time and they've had success as a result of it.

50:51 Speaker 3: Right, it's now this season where it's like, because you don't have the likes of a David Crazy or a Patrise Spurgeron and there's.

51:02 Speaker 5: A Dane Chara and now no longer a Brad.

51:05 Speaker 3: Marsh and so you know, it's no I know, I know, I know, I know, but again, you know, we we can. I'm just gonna say this because I feel like I have to say it, but the fact that they never had a succession plan for either Patrese Bergeron or David Kracie is malfeasance on the part of Bruin's management.

51:36 Speaker 2: Yep.

51:37 Speaker 3: Yeah, we hear all the time about defencemen. You know, franchise defencemans don't grow on trees, don't. Well, guys like Krachi and Bergeron don't freaking grow on trees either, right.

51:51 Speaker 1: Yeah, So they did a better job of planning for the future with their defense than and yes, yes, right, because they went from Chara to Chucky.

52:04 Speaker 11: Really doing that with Lori and Carlo was good you know, Carlo was a good, solid defensive defenceman.

52:16 Speaker 3: He faltered this year, yes, but you know last season we were singing his praises. As you know, he was undeniably the Bruins' best defenceman last season was over and above Campus and Charlie McAvoy, who is your franchise defenseman. So anyways, I would like to think that if we are able to find the flaws in this roster and in each variable unit that you know a good team needs to have, I would like to think that scouts, management within the Bust and Bruins have the same sense of awareness at even a keener level than we've talked about in these these segments.

53:09 Speaker 2: Yep. I mean, but you guys talk about, you know, succession plan. I'm just looking at the draft picks of of what Boston's done, and they've primarily drafted centers like yeah, they they they've tried, they've just failed.

53:27 Speaker 1: Had.

53:28 Speaker 2: Yeah, you had Jackson, then you had who was drafted as the center, Artist Hall, who's gone. You had, uh, I mean Beecher who's kind of worked out, but he's no better than a third line center. I just know you had Trevor Kuntar who was you know who's not Riley Durant who seems like a decent, you know, bottom six guy but never will be a top six Brett Harrison who's probably still out there, Patra who you know went up and then went down, and then you go miss mismanaging them, right, Yeah. And then you got you know, Dan's Luck Melis, who still is a prospect.

54:18 Speaker 2: You got Dean Laturno, who I don't think he scored a goal in college, so we'll really he did not.

54:28 Speaker 5: He did not.

54:29 Speaker 2: There was some reasons though, like isn't he kind of underage for college, and like some other stuff went on, like people weren't too too worried about it, but again, it doesn't vode well for a guy who's you know, six seven, two fifteen playing college hockey. Kids score goals. So so yeah, so I mean, we'll see. I don't know if the Bruins are even going to be able to draft one of the top centers you know, this coming year. So they're like, yeah, so it'll interesting to see.

55:01 Speaker 3: And and honestly, we we had a general manager who openly said we are going to focus on the wing position.

55:13 Speaker 5: Yeah, because they the apparently.

55:18 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think if you look at it, you can kind of get away with who the who The Bruins have it center. I mean you've got you got Lynn to Holm, you got middle stat you got Beacher, You've you've got Ikey who can play center too. So they have a good amount of centers where if you can get you know, a couple of dynamo wings, then as long as your wings score and your center's job is to play the two hundred foot game, I could live with it. You know, I may not like it, but I could live with it, depending if they fill the other you know, we don't bring back like all of the Marakko's, Nadinov and know, those guys to play top six, right, Like, we just can't do it anymore.

56:04 Speaker 3: He better go out and find if he's going to focus on wingers, Hed better go out and find wingers that are guaranteed to provide you with a number of points and goals throughout the course of the season, because you are not going to be able to start next season once again without solving the problem, the age old problem, the chronic Age old problem of lack of secondary scoring, right right, Yeah, It's.

56:40 Speaker 2: Just I don't know how many free agent wingers will be out there. That really knocks my socks off. I mean outside of you know, Marner and Tavares and Nikolai Eilers. I don't know if like Dodado is the answer, you know that just be a good player on a bad team that will their teams take lightly, you know. So I don't wanna you know, it's this might not be the year to you know, really have our expectations unless we can get like a brock Boser or Marshandon Bennett back or you know, it's gonna be interesting, or they trade Corpuslo and Zaka for a winger or someone that can help right away.

57:22 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's gonna happen in in a in a real hockey a real hockey trade.

57:29 Speaker 2: But yeah, but I mean, if you can, you know, give up Corpuslo and you got d Pietro as your backup, maybe it's okay. You know, it's we'll just have to see some you know. For me, this is kind of where Don does a better job is. But I hope they get a little bit more aggressive because they've just been too damn conservatives the last two years. Yep, they've just just haven't gone for it. Damn it. Get Marner. That would be that would be fun.

57:58 Speaker 1: That would be fun, would be well, anyways, going off, Okay, it's all good penalty kills.

58:08 Speaker 2: So but yeah, no, I think I think they're in a good spot. I think the penalty kill will be better next year. Again, coaches philosophy, coaches kind of just their message is going to be important. So we'll see what see what happens.

58:24 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, well this has been awesome.

58:27 Speaker 5: Thank you again.

58:29 Speaker 1: Yeah, we appreciate you.

58:30 Speaker 2: Walking any time. Yes, thanks for not answering so.

58:34 Speaker 5: Many Yeah, we were better, We were better in this second.

58:39 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I didn't even have to write anything though. Excellent.

58:44 Speaker 1: Well, as always, if you enjoy our content, make sure you like and subscribe, give us a rating and a review.

58:51 Speaker 5: Uh and as always, go Bees, Go Bees, Go Panthers. B.